Two Long Sets vs Three Moderate Sets

[wheresgrant3]

We typically contracted to play 4 hrs (10-2am) and three 45-60 minute sets like most bands do. This fall we're making our manager work a little and propose a two set show to local club owners. So far two rooms are on board and it looks like three more may follow. Most clubs in our area don't heat up until 11pm. We're ready to play at 10pm. Most often we're either told to wait to start the first set until the club starts 'hopping' (resulting in cutting sets short or skipping material) or we play to the club as it's filling and finish the first set just as the place starts to fill to capacity. So we decided as a band to throw out a proposal for us to play two 1:15-1:25 minute sets. Oh... and we raised our price by $200. LOL

 

We've played two setters before in select clubs... this is the first time however that we are putting this forward as our 'package'. I don't really expect a ton of push back. We are still the most consistent draw in the area by a long shot and we haven't raised our min guarantee in over 3 years, despite adding more members, a light show, a DJ and video marketing to the mix. It was a consideration of the economy and we felt we were nearing a ceiling in pay. Still we've been able to hold our own being the maximum draw in nearly every club we play while some other bands in the area are clearly struggling. Many of these bands have been raising their rates. It's time to put a little distance between us.

 

Of course if the bar owner prefers to stay 3 sets we'll accomdate. Price is a differen't story. Last year, we weeded out some rooms that wouldn't budge on price. No surprise they were also the most inflexible when it came to proposing new ideas. Still some bar owners get stuck on thinking "What am I getting for my money spent" rather than "how much will I make if I keep all these people the entire night". I think longer sets will help us keep the crowd better between sets and honestly we'd all prefer to open the show with a crowd who's ready to party versus a crowd looking for their first drink.

 

So we'll see how this Fall goes. Even if we can get 5 rooms to accept this model it will probably make a big difference for us in terms of attitude and enjoyment.

[TIMKEYS]

Your best option is to have the freedom to flex your breaks to work best with the crowd. If you know the place is going to get slammed at 11pm. You want to be going full tilt when the bulk of the crowd is there and play straight through. We run a split show in a food bar joint. 7 to 8 is a solo show and a break at 8. we might play an hour, as a band then go two more hours straight on a night were you dont want to stop playing and have people leave. Not being tied into a set break sched is the way to go. last night the 8 pm break ran long due to the fact that the room was turning over...we played straight through. We have no set schedule. Its a little different for us since we are a house band and can pretty well do what we want without any problems.

[TrickyBoy]

We're playing a show this weekend at a club that has up play 11-2. We do a 90 minute first set, take a 25 minute break, then do a 65 minute second set. I really love that format.

[wheresgrant3]

 

Your best option is to have the freedom to flex your breaks to work best with the crowd. If you know the place is going to get slammed at 11pm. You want to be going full tilt when the bulk of the crowd is there and play straight through. We run a split show in a food bar joint. 7 to 8 is a solo show and a break at 8. we might play an hour, as a band then go two more hours straight on a night were you dont want to stop playing and have people leave. Not being tied into a set break sched is the way to go. last night the 8 pm break ran long due to the fact that the room was turning over...we played straight through. We have no set schedule. Its a little different for us since we are a house band and can pretty well do what we want without any problems.

 

 

That's the problem... every room is different. Each room has it's own characteristics and management to deal with. We're not really worried about people bailing between sets as much as we want to put on the best show possible. Starting cold with the audience is great for the bar's sense of value, but for us it's a grind. They aren't using us to our maximum potential. If we go on at 11, play until 12:15, break and then play 12:45 till 2am they are getting a party right out of the gate. You'd be surprised the difference an hour makes. Our DJ plays before the band starts and during the break. It's part of the package. So the bar isn't losing anything in this deal... except 4-5 throwaway songs we waste warming up the crowd.

[TrickyBoy]

I totally agree about the first set being a grind. This place we're playing this weekend we've played a few times in the past. Always start at 11. We can literally play any song right off the bat and the crowd is completely on board. We opened with Sweet Child last time and Meagan didn't even have to sing most of the song - the crowd just completely took over. Starting an hour earlier would have been a totally different experience.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I totally agree about the first set being a grind. This place we're playing this weekend we've played a few times in the past. Always start at 11. We can literally play any song right off the bat and the crowd is completely on board. We opened with Sweet Child last time and Meagan didn't even have to sing most of the song - the crowd just completely took over. Starting an hour earlier would have been a totally different experience.

 

 

every place is different. rumors are flying down here that one of the late night club bands lost their house gig. I can see this due to the fact that most people start drinking pretty early because they are on vacation. By 10pm most people are winding down or showing up there and nursing the expensive drinks. this is the second time this has happened to this band. Its one of the best party bands you will ever see... but since they left the hotel house band slot they had for years ,, things just have not worked out for them. The hotel has a built in crowd and the hotel rooms withing staggering distance. A stand alone late club is not a good model down here it seems.

[TrickyBoy]

Over here, no one even thinks about getting to the club until 10 at the earliest, usually 10:30-11. There's only one place in town that has any sort of live music start before then, and it's a restaurant that attracts a very different crowd. We used to play there, but our band really is not a good fit for the dinner crowd...

[wheresgrant3]

It wasn't this way a few years ago when the economy was doing much better. We would arrive at 8:00 for load in to a packed parking lot and dozens of people, drinking at the bar or eating dinner waiting for us to go on. Now people start filtering in around 10pm. The summer of 2008 is when things started to slide. I know for a fact that people would rather drink at home or at a friends house first rather than spending money in a bar. It's funny... prior to 2008 I rarely heard anyone say "$XXX is how much I have to go out with tonight." Things are different these days... people still come, the rooms are still packed... it's just an hour later than a few years back.

 

On a side note, a recent conversation with a struggling bar owner who's drink prices are thru the roof, he didn't understand why business was down so much yet we were still drawing big crowds. Then the next morning he finds empty Gatorade and liquor bottles all over the parking lot. He was mad at us... we were like "don't be mad... stop charging $9 for Stoli and Orange in a 12 oz plastic cup. Lower your drink prices.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Over here, no one even thinks about getting to the club until 10 at the earliest, usually 10:30-11. There's only one place in town that has any sort of live music start before then, and it's a restaurant that attracts a very different crowd. We used to play there, but our band really is not a good fit for the dinner crowd...

 

 

Yea lots of places run the late night model due to people not getting out to late. Tourists tend to start drinking early ,, so they are headed back to the condos about the time the night club bands go on stage. The big hotel has enough rooms that they tend to have good crowds , since people are staying there and its easy to hit the bar on site on their way back to their rooms after we get done with them.

[TIMKEYS]

 

It wasn't this way a few years ago when the economy was doing much better. We would arrive at 8:00 for load in to a packed parking lot and dozens of people, drinking at the bar or eating dinner waiting for us to go on. Now people start filtering in around 10pm. The summer of 2008 is when things started to slide. I know for a fact that people would rather drink at home or at a friends house first rather than spending money in a bar. It's funny... prior to 2008 I rarely heard anyone say "$XXX is how much I have to go out with tonight." Things are different these days... people still come, the rooms are still packed... it's just an hour later than a few years back. On a side note, a recent conversation with a struggling bar owner who's drink prices are thru the roof, he didn't understand why business was down so much yet we were still drawing big crowds. Then the next morning he finds empty Gatorade and liquor bottles all over the parking lot. He was mad at us... we were like "don't be mad... stop charging $9 for Stoli and Orange in a 12 oz plastic cup. Lower your drink prices .

 

 

pre loading is a big problem for bars when it comes to young crowds. They take up space , but they are already in the bag ,, so they nurse drinks on you.

[Vito Corleone]

Whenever possible, I prefer to do 2 longer sets rather than 3 or 4 short ones. Even if we end up playing more songs in the process. The sets and night just flows better that way. We did a 3 hr gig on couple of nights ago with two 80 min sets and a 20 min break.

 

But we're not doing the club dates anymore, so figuring out what do to with the light-crowd 1st sets is no longer an issue. At private events the 1st set is as busy (if not more so) than the last.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Whenever possible, I prefer to do 2 longer sets rather than 3 or 4 short ones. Even if we end up playing more songs in the process. The sets and night just flows better that way. We did a 3 hr gig on couple of nights ago with two 80 min sets and a 20 min break. But we're not doing the club dates anymore, so figuring out what do to with the light-crowd 1st sets is no longer an issue. At private events the 1st set is as busy (if not more so) than the last.

 

 

Yea three breaks in just three hours is alot of breaks. We tend to play long sets too. We also watch the room since its a dinner joint. If we can look at the room and know its in the process of turning over we will take a break,,, and let the the tables turn over. When we get some new people back in we fire up again and typically play later to keep the party going.

 

since there is no load in and out ,, its not a big deal if we dont get off stage till well after the normal quitting time. We are working to pump the ring rather than just working by the contracted time. Pvt Parties and away games go more like a regular normal band type gig. Its off season now ,, so we may knock it off early, so it all evens out. last night after hour solo set... there was a longer break.... we did a long set and pulled the plug.

[SeniorBlues]

45-15 used to be sacrosanct.

 

I joined the R&B band and found out we'd only play two sets . . . then the second gig, the leader skipped the break and went for one long show.

 

OK. . . . his call . . . . an hour forty, IIRC. Longest I'd ever played.

[Vito Corleone]

 

45-15 used to be sacrosanct.

 

 

Yeah, those days are long gone it seems.

 

 

OK. . . . his call . . . . an hour forty, IIRC. Longest I'd ever played.

 

 

You have to pace yourself physically a bit for longer sets, but I find the night goes by quicker with fewer breaks. I feel for the drummer and singer sometimes on the long sets but they've yet to complain. I think the longest we've done is about 2-2:15. Can get tiring when you're doing the song-into-song-into-song deal. But I figure that's what the people are paying for, so give 'em their money's worth. Taking a break in the middle of a 2 hour gig when the client is paying a lot of money doesn't seem right to me. If we DO take a break on the short gigs, it's never more than about 5 min.--catch our breath, have a quick drink and back on to the finish the show.

[bnelly428]

We actually did a hybrid of the 2 longer or 3 shorter sets last "night". We played a block party from 6-830 and instead of doing 3 45 minute sets, we did 2 30min and 1 65 minute set. 10 minute breaks. Really keep the energy going. 45/15 is pretty standard around here.

[BlueStrat]

 

We're playing a show this weekend at a club that has up play 11-2. We do a 90 minute first set, take a 25 minute break, then do a 65 minute second set. I really love that format.

 

 

 

I do three sets in a 4 hour gig, with about 14-15 songs each. A 25 minute break would lose the crowd and get us fired.

[BlueStrat]

 

45-15 used to be sacrosanct. an hour forty, IIRC. Longest I'd ever played.

 

 

Festival sets I do are almost all 90 to 105 minutes as a matter of course; a lot of them are two hour sets. I played a solo acoustic gig for an open house last Friday and played 4 hours straight through without a break, but I was sitting down so it wasn't bad.

[TIMKEYS]

Last night it was a hour solo dinner set ,, and then 2 hours and half straight through with the full band

[Howie22]

 

On a side note, a recent conversation with a struggling bar owner who's drink prices are thru the roof, he didn't understand why business was down so much yet we were still drawing big crowds. Then the next morning he finds empty Gatorade and liquor bottles all over the parking lot. He was mad at us... we were like "don't be mad... stop charging $9 for Stoli and Orange in a 12 oz plastic cup. Lower your drink prices .

 

 

I'm always amazed at bartenders/wait staff that work an early shift and then 'hang out' after their shift. After all, I sure as hell don't want to hang out at work with my co-workers when the day is done. The reason??? They get employee discounts on their drinks. Cheaper than going anywhere else.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I'm always amazed at bartenders/wait staff that work an early shift and then 'hang out' after their shift. After all, I sure as hell don't want to hang out at work with my co-workers when the day is done. The reason??? They get employee discounts on their drinks. Cheaper than going anywhere else.

 

 

many places comp a drink to employees at the end of the shift. bartenters will also give away the bar to their friends in exchange for a healthy tip that would be less than their bar tab.

[guitarguy19]

 

I do three sets in a 4 hour gig, with about 14-15 songs each. A 25 minute break would lose the crowd and get us fired.

 

 

How do you do three 1 hr (14-15 songs is 1 hr for us) in a 4 hr time slot, and not take a 25+ minute break?How do you fill the extra hour of time?

 

For us it's an hour on and then a half hour break. When we get off stage we bee line for the biggest groups and partying chicks and make "friends" with them. They very rarely leave.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I do three sets in a 4 hour gig, with about 14-15 songs each. A 25 minute break would lose the crowd and get us fired.

 

 

25 min breaks have their purpose. You can clean out the dead wood , who are done eating, done drinking and just taking up space. take a break turn the tables and let the place fill up with fresh customers. Its more of a food joint move when you have gone on at 7 and know you may well be still playing at 11 thirty or midnight. With a drink and dance crowd you dont do that ,, with a food joint gig it can work out to your advantage in a place with limited seating.

[BlueStrat]

 

How do you do three 1 hr (14-15 songs is 1 hr for us) in a 4 hr time slot, and not take a 25+ minute break?How do you fill the extra hour of time? For us it's an hour on and then a half hour break. When we get off stage we bee line for the biggest groups and partying chicks and make "friends" with them. They very rarely leave.

 

 

A 4 hour gig is 240 minutes. 15 songs is about 70 minutes for us. 3 x 70=210. 240-210=30 minutes, or two 15 minute breaks. Each place is different, but I have found over the years that 1) a lot of people use band breaks as a cue to get up and leave, 2) it kills momentum, and 3) long breaks bore the crap out of me, even if I'm chatting up the crowd. I set all that gear up to play music, not chat with people on long breaks. I realize there is no right or wrong way to go about it, and everyone does what is best for them. But I do know I've left more than one club because the band was on break for way too long.

[BlueStrat]

 

25 min breaks have their purpose. You can clean out the dead wood , who are done eating, done drinking and just taking up space. take a break turn the tables and let the place fill up with fresh customers. Its more of a food joint move when you have gone on at 7 and know you may well be still playing at 11 thirty or midnight. With a drink and dance crowd you dont do that ,, with a food joint gig it can work out to your advantage in a place with limited seating.

 

 

Yes, that's a good point. It depends on the crowd and how many people are waiting. At my restaurant gig, Sometimes I take a 20 minute break, sometimes 5 or 10, sometimes I play straight through with no break at all if the crowd is lighter. The restaurant gig pays me tips and I have experienced that breaks lets people get up and leave, passing the tip jar without tipping. For some reason, they feel more compelled to tip while I'm playing.

[guitarguy19]

 

15 songs is about 70 minutes for us.

 

 

There it is right there. 15 songs is about 55 minutes for us. Maybe an hour tops if we BS more than usual.