Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted November 20, 2011 How I entertain myself really shouldn't matter that much to you, should it? Just scroll past what you don't want to read or put my posts on ignore or whatever. It is clear you feel that way. But I end up diving into a thread's subject matter that you frequently have pertinent points to make, but consistently it quickly goes in the {censored}ter with you as ring master. So David, yeah... I do usually scroll past and will today. It's unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think there are several points in Dave's last post that are on the money. If it's a new band getting together or an established band with a bunch of new material to put together, I'd rather schedule a cheap gig in a {censored}ty dive somewhere rather than rehearse for a week. However, I see the whole gig vs. rehearsal thing as being a preference in this discussion. Ultimately, a band must play together on a consistent basic if it expects to get tight and/or stay tight. I think it would be hard to find anybody who's bands have played stretches of multiple gigs each week that wouldn't agree their bands were tighter than they've ever been during those times. My take is that the guys who profess they never rehearse and just get together to play a sporadic gig here and there and claim that the band is "tight" - are lying - to us or to themselves (or most likely - to both!). Even if the band comes off as tight (which is extremely possible when the level of musicianship is high) - most would agree that their performance could have been better if they were playing together a little more often. The real issue is that constant playing together does not yield linear improvement - it's a case of diminishing returns. If the benefit derived from 1 rehearsal a week is "X" ... the benefit derived from 2 rehearsals a week isn't "2x" ... it's something less. It's not that rehearsing more is a bad thing - it's just that there are more effective ways to use your time. The challenge each band faces is finding what balance works best for them. For me and the projects that I work with - playing together once a week (either at a gig or in the rehearsal space) is what we gotta do to keep things going and growing. If we're consistently playing together less than that - we start to lose our edge in terms of tightness. Worse, we start having to spend what time we do get playing together to maintain our existing list of tunes - rather than learning new material (which is the beginning of the end for most bands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 we dont really have time to do formal band practice. We do play a lot. One thing that does help is that we host a weekly jam night. This is where we slide in most of the new material since its a known that we will try pretty well anything since its a informal show. Not ideal but thats how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Working up new songs really just depends on the song, the situation, and the band members' scheduling. Since the girls live pretty far away from the rest of us we'll often get together without them to work up the backing music and then put together the vocals at soundcheck or backstage. If the song is simple enough, it might just be a "learn your parts at home" thing and we'll just throw it in the songlist and play it cold. We'll sometimes work out arrangements by discussing them in the car on the way to the gig. Different songs require different amounts of attention to make them gig-ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think seasoned musicians who value other things in their life and do music as more of a part-time thing than their full-time livelihood will carry more of a "do your homework, know the songs, then let's work out beginnings, transitions, and endings at rehearsals" attitude, because it is the least time-wasting of rehearsal strategies. It's also the one that doesn't require standing around while you wait for the unprepared members of your band to figure their {censored} out. Even some of the full-timers I know take this strategy as a way to maximize rehearsal time. I think if you think you need endless rehearsals with no gigs on the horizon, you care more about rehearsing than actually playing shows. And/or you're chicken{censored}, your standards are unrealistically high, or you simply suck at playing. But those are just my opinions...and I'm just a hack who's been playing well-paid shows for almost 20 years, so I don't know anything... Brian V. P.S. I don't think David's responses were just a dick-measuring contest with the other person. There were very valid points in there, and he has a right to defend himself against someone making a crap accusation about his credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 [quote=SpaceNorman;44409073 However, I see the whole gig vs. rehearsal thing as being a preference in this discussion. Ultimately, a band must play together on a consistent basic if it expects to get tight and/or stay tight. - Agreed. Ergo, they don't play out all the time, they should rehearse. I think it would be hard to find anybody who's bands have played stretches of multiple gigs each week that wouldn't agree their bands were tighter than they've ever been during those times. My take is that the guys who profess they never rehearse and just get together to play a sporadic gig here and there and claim that the band is "tight" - are lying - to us or to themselves (or most likely - to both!). - Which is really my problem with Dave's comments. There's a certain self delusion that I see in some musicians where they think they can play, but they can't. Even if the band comes off as tight (which is extremely possible when the level of musicianship is high) - most would agree that their performance could have been better if they were playing together a little more often. - This should be a sticky. Doesn't matter how tight the band is, how much they can wing it with their excellent musicianship, if there is room for improvement, they should be seeking it. The real issue is that constant playing together does not yield linear improvement - it's a case of diminishing returns. If the benefit derived from 1 rehearsal a week is "X" ... the benefit derived from 2 rehearsals a week isn't "2x" ... it's something less. It's not that rehearsing more is a bad thing - it's just that there are more effective ways to use your time. - This should be a sticky as well. It's not about playing all the time, it's about searching for areas to improve. There are guys that have been playing 40 years that I got up to speed on inside of a few years. My take: I tried, sought improvement, I looked for solutions. They did the same thing over and over. The challenge each band faces is finding what balance works best for them. For me and the projects that I work with - playing together once a week (either at a gig or in the rehearsal space) is what we gotta do to keep things going and growing. If we're consistently playing together less than that - we start to lose our edge in terms of tightness. Worse, we start having to spend what time we do get playing together to maintain our existing list of tunes - rather than learning new material (which is the beginning of the end for most bands). And this is really the crux of it. You either desire to move forward or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Still no concept on how to use the "quote" feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think seasoned musicians who value other things in their life and do music as more of a part-time thing than their full-time livelihood will carry more of a "do your homework, know the songs, then let's work out beginnings, transitions, and endings at rehearsals" attitude, because it is the least time-wasting of rehearsal strategies. It's also the one that doesn't require standing around while you wait for the unprepared members of your band to figure their {censored} out. Even some of the full-timers I know take this strategy as a way to maximize rehearsal time. This is what I think as well. Some situations are going to be unique, and you'll need more rehearsal, like if you're doing a ton of medleys, mashups, etc. For most coverbands, it seems to me sufficient to learn your parts of the records, come prepared, and play it. My personal pet peeve is when we come to rehearsal and someone goes,"Are we going to do that modulation?" or "Let's skip that breakdown section, that's just a studio thing". That seems like a lame cop out to me. If we decide as a group to rearrange something because we've got a better way to do it, great, we're adding some of ourselves to the . If we're rearranging because people don't want to learn the song the whole way through, that's irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Still no concept on how to use the "quote" feature? Not multi quoting. No. Still don't understand why musicians rehearse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not multi quoting. It isn't multi-quoting. That's for something else. Sorry that the technology is over your head. But should anyone be surprised? Still don't understand why musicians rehearse? Musicians? I absolutely understand why they rehearse. You? No. I really don't have a clue as to why you would bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dunning/Kruger at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Again, this is a BAND forum. WHY. ARE. YOU. HERE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 This is what I think as well. Some situations are going to be unique, and you'll need more rehearsal, like if you're doing a ton of medleys, mashups, etc. For most coverbands, it seems to me sufficient to learn your parts of the records, come prepared, and play it.My personal pet peeve is when we come to rehearsal and someone goes,"Are we going to do that modulation?" or "Let's skip that breakdown section, that's just a studio thing". That seems like a lame cop out to me. If we decide as a group to rearrange something because we've got a better way to do it, great, we're adding some of ourselves to the . If we're rearranging because people don't want to learn the song the whole way through, that's irritating. You pretty much think the way I do on this. If a song seems a bit challenging or requires a bit of thought, such as counting out the amount of beats before the piano part comes back in at the end of Lady Antebellum's "Need You Now," and then the decision is made to shelve it for now because of such things, that irritates me. It's one thing if it's beyond the scope of the musicians because they simply can't fathom it. It's another thing entirely if the band is more than capable of doing it, but they simply don't want to work that hard at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 [quote=tim_7string;44411251 ......................It's another thing entirely if the band is more than capable of doing it, but they simply don't want to work that hard at it... Low speed, high drag is the term for people like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Low speed, high drag is the term for people like this. Here you go, Timmy. Maybe this will help cut down on your drag. Your next potential band-mates will probably appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etcetra Posted November 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hi, thanks for all the replies.. I've been busy with stuff, so I haven't had chance to respond... sorry My general thoughts about rehearsals is that you do them whenever they are necessary, and you are expected to know your stuff already before rehearsals. Most pro situations require that I can do the music with little or no rehearsals. Up until now the band as pretty much worked on "rehearsals as necessary" attitude. Everyone in the band is pro&we prepare on our own thoroughly. we can pull a great show within 1-2 rehearsals, and almost every show went really well. I was actually cool with doing rehearsals occasionally, work on some really cool metric modulation&experiment with the songs (i.e accenting every 4 notes of quintapolet on bass/keybaord while drummer plays regular groove in 4/4) The problem is that since we talked about doing rehearsals, the gigs have dried out.. we used to play 2-3 times a month, now it's like every other months, mostly because the bandleader wants to "move on" and he thinks it's going to do more harm by doing lower paying gigs. There were couple of gigs that came our way that we turned down, because he feels like we deserve to play better gigs. For rehearsals, he wants to expand the repertoire and experiment with the song, which is all great, but in the back on my mind I am thinking "But when is our next gig?" right now I feel like we are rehearsing in the hopes of that we'll be getting good paying gigs on regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I trust our band leader's work ethic, I am all for rehearsing more to be tight, but then again it would be a huge letdown if we rehearse regularly for the next 6 months only to play like 2-3 gigs. Like others have said, ultimately it's about whether we are moving forward as a group or not.. and right now I don't know if we are, because we play so little, and it's really hard for me to commit to regular rehearsals not knowing what's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hi, thanks for all the replies.. I've been busy with stuff, so I haven't had chance to respond... sorry My general thoughts about rehearsals is that you do them whenever they are necessary, and you are expected to know your stuff already before rehearsals. Most pro situations require that I can do the music with little or no rehearsals. Up until now the band as pretty much worked on "rehearsals as necessary" attitude. Everyone in the band is pro&we prepare on our own thoroughly. we can pull a great show within 1-2 rehearsals, and almost every show went really well. I was actually cool with doing rehearsals occasionally, work on some really cool metric modulation&experiment with the songs (i.e accenting every 4 notes of quintapolet on bass/keybaord while drummer plays regular groove in 4/4) The problem is that since we talked about doing rehearsals, the gigs have dried out.. we used to play 2-3 times a month, now it's like every other months, mostly because the bandleader wants to "move on" and he thinks it's going to do more harm by doing lower paying gigs. There were couple of gigs that came our way that we turned down, because he feels like we deserve to play better gigs. For rehearsals, he wants to expand the repertoire and experiment with the song, which is all great, but in the back on my mind I am thinking "But when is our next gig?" right now I feel like we are rehearsing in the hopes of that we'll be getting good paying gigs on regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I trust our band leader's work ethic, I am all for rehearsing more to be tight, but then again it would be a huge letdown if we rehearse regularly for the next 6 months only to play like 2-3 gigs. Like others have said, ultimately it's about whether we are moving forward as a group or not.. and right now I don't know if we are, because we play so little, and it's really hard for me to commit to regular rehearsals not knowing what's going to happen. My band is in a bit of similar position right now: this time of year is always slow for us anyway. We hoped that after last winter we'd do better booking up this winter, but so far that hasn't been the case: we've got one show booked in Dec. and nothing else confirmed until March. A concious decision was made to raise our asking price for 2012, and so far that's seemed to work out OK---8 shows booked next year so far--but we'll see how it goes. (this year we booked about 30 dates. I'd like to keep that number about the same if not better.) We've already bid on at least 2 gigs that we just didn't even hear back from--making us wonder if we would have got them had we bid less--but we knew that was going to happen. The big question is: what do we do with the down time? How much to we rehearse? How far in advance do we bother learning new songs knowing we might not play them for a couple of months? Then again, things sometimes DO pop up at relatively short notice and it would be nice to be ready. Do we fill in some of the slow period with lower paying gigs? I don't want to rehearse "just to rehearse"--for one thing, rehearsal is a big deal for us as all the members of the band are spread out over 100 miles, everyone has careers, families, etc--but I want the band to remain tight as well. I know that a couple of rehearsals before a gig would tighten us up quickly, but should something come up at the last minute and people aren't available to rehearse? That would suck even more. hmmm... and hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 speaking of practice ,, its time to blow the rust off of this puppy ,,,,, tis the season ho ho ho[video=youtube;P37xPiRz1sg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etcetra Posted November 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 \nThe big question is: what do we do with the down time? How much to we rehearse? How far in advance do we bother learning new songs knowing we might not play them for a couple of months? Then again, things sometimes DO pop up at relatively short notice and it would be nice to be ready. Do we fill in some of the slow period with lower paying gigs? I don't want to rehearse "just to rehearse"--for one thing, rehearsal is a big deal for us as all the members of the band are spread out over 100 miles, everyone has careers, families, etc--but I want the band to remain tight as well. I know that a couple of rehearsals before a gig would tighten us up quickly, but should something come up at the last minute and people aren't available to rehearse? That would suck even more.hmmm... and hmmm... I agree, it's a tough issue. My biggest concerns about doing a lot of rehearsals is loss of motivation. The fact that we had limited number of rehearsals before a gig makes us really focused and we prepare thoroughly before gigs. But with no gigs in sight, it's hard to make the rehearsal material a priority, especially if you are inundated with materials for other gigs. It's easy for standards to drop because you start thinking "we can get it next time". Also I see gigs as payoff/validation for the rehearsals you do.. that's why I'd rather take those lower paying gig then go long stretches with no gigs. btw as far as rehearsing for the sake of "getting the music down right" or tight.. I agree with you. I've noticed a lot of bands rehearse regularly with this idea and never go anywhere. Basically these guys don't practice on their own and rehearsal (which is literally meant to be a practice/trial performance) becomes a time for practicing. The problem is that since they don't have the discipline and focus to shed it at home, they make the same mistakes over and over again. I've quit a lot of bands because they had this "regular rehearsal" requirement.. it was frustrating, because I would be way more prepared them most of the regular members of the band, and I feel like I am spending the next 4-5 rehearsal in order for other guys to get it right. If that's not the case, some people have this idea that playing the same song over and over again without addressing issues and making specific goal is somehow meaningful.. (which is interesting, because some say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results). I admit that it's part of the reason I am not that into regular rehearsals. In my experience, the more pro the musicians are they less they expect to rehearse. I read that many of Chick Corea and Bill Evan's albums were created with little or no rehearsal beforehand. Of course they have incredible amount of musicianship, and I am not saying I am like that, but I do generally think that I individual preparation comes first, and rehearsals which requires everyone's time, should done on the basis of necessity. For me, if you are rehearsing for couple of month with no gigs, you are practicing for fun/self-improvement.. which is fine.. i still do that with people who wants to practice similar things...but I wouldn't make that mandatory for a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 For me, if you are rehearsing for couple of month with no gigs, you are practicing for fun/self-improvement.. which is fine.. i still do that with people who wants to practice similar things...but I wouldn't make that mandatory for a band. I'm with you on all of this. Every band/every musician is different, I think, but with my band part of the problem is that the Law of Diminishing Returns eventually kicks in with rehearsal. Especially if we haven't played awhile, a rehearsal or two before a gig is almost mandatory for the band to be tight at the gig. But 10 or 12 rehearsals before that gig? We're not going to be THAT much tighter. So then it starts to fall over into "waste of time" catagory and we'd be better off doing other things with our individual lives. Even the idea of just getting together once-a-week or something...isn't going to improve the band much. For one reason that you pointed out: the intensity isn't there if there's not a gig staring us in the face. It's that LAST rehearsal that sticks with everyone. OTHO, cameraderie is a big part of this band. We all really like hanging out together and have a lot of fun together and that's a lot of the energy we bring to the stage. I don't want everyone to go weeks without seeing each other or have the band take too much of a backseat in anyone's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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