Members kmart Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Anyone else feel free, here's the link. http://www.californiabarandgrill.biz/contact_us.htm Just my opinion, but if the owner's policy is to shaft bands, what good do you think it will do to post on the venue's forum?All the owner will do is tell his web admin to delete your posts. If you're absolutely gung-ho on making this a public outcry, you're better off using public sites. Do you have the equivalent of Yelp!, Urban Spoon or the like in your area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's also worth mentioning, that NO band around here uses contracts, if we tried, we would be a band that doesn't gig. It's just not accepted, and since there is no pressure on the owners, it probably never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well it's not an approach I would use either... but again, I wouldn't find myself in that situation. Everything we book is locked in and secured. If I read an account of just one band that had a disagreement with a venue over pay I would probably pay it no mind. In fact there was a situation a few years ago where a local band ranted about a bar that 'wronged' them over pay... the venue fought back with a chain letter of their own to every barowner in the area suggesting a blacklist for the band... which is exactly what occurred. Their version of events was pretty scathing for the band... they showed up late, drank a ran up a ridiculous tab and played to nobody. It certainly harmed their bookings to the extent the band dissolved and tried to reform and rename themselves. But if I read the same account coming from 5-6 bands (not a single rant) regarding a particular venue it would certainly remain on my radar. Again, strength in numbers. As long as the facts were communicated not the emotions (alot of "FU's" and "Fu**k Them!") I would certainly flag that bar if they approached us, I have heard from some bands and some venues that Band X doesn't bring anyone in and Venue Y shafted us pay and said we took long breaks and were too loud and drank a bunch.... Unfortunately, the Bars get the benefit of the doubt because of the stigma attached to being a "musician"... and they are the ones with the power ie money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just my opinion, but if the owner's policy is to shaft bands, what good do you think it will do to post on the venue's forum?All the owner will do is tell his web admin to delete your posts.If you're absolutely gung-ho on making this a public outcry, you're better off using public sites. Do you have the equivalent of Yelp!, Urban Spoon or the like in your area? It's an online complaint form, not a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. In hindsight, we're sorry we did play it. But again, they could have made us out to be the bad guys if we just split. We had actual FANS show up, people who arent friends or family, so I think in the end, it was a good thing we played it out. It was actually one of our better shows, and a fantastic turnout. We're doing well enough that playing for the door is a fantastic insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. This. Your friends and fans would have understood . . . . probably even supported you right then and there if you'd asked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. I'm pretty much with dan88z. I would have waited until most of the band's crowd was there and then explained the situation to your friends. All of you walking out at the same time would make more of an impact on the bar's bottom line then playing the gig and getting stiffed. It would suck for your friends that traveled there but I'm sure they would understand. Half the bar's patrons walking out all at one time demanding their cover charge back since there is no band would make a statement. I'd find another local bar that doesn't have music and offer up a free "unplugged" like show for your friends. We did that once and it was magic. We were traveling back from a couple of college gigs with about 50 people with us. We stopped at a hole in the wall bar/restaurant for a quick meal and they were so nice we offered up an impromptu concert. It was amazing and the place was tiny. We all had a great time and the ma & pa bar made so much money they gave us a $500 tip at the end of the evening. It was completely relaxed and our friends still talk about that show more than any other and that happened in 1985. We actually gave most of the money back to the waitresses and bartender since they had to work their butts off and in this place, they were not used to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'd find another local bar that doesn't have music and offer up a free "unplugged" like show for your friends. We did that once and it was magic. We were traveling back from a couple of college gigs with about 50 people with us. We stopped at a hole in the wall bar/restaurant for a quick meal and they were so nice we offered up an impromptu concert. It was amazing and the place was tiny. We all had a great time and the ma & pa bar made so much money they gave us a $500 tip at the end of the evening. It was completely relaxed and our friends still talk about that show more than any other and that happened in 1985. We actually gave most of the money back to the waitresses and bartender since they had to work their butts off and in this place, they were not used to that. Great story. . . . . Kramerguy, If you're not comfortable with a formal contract, how about an email confirmation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 we don't usually travel that far south but I can say right now that if we did we would NOT play this place after your post. So first off let me say THANK YOU for the post and including the name... If you didn't I would have PM'd you anyway. In the Hazleton/ Wilkes-Barre/ Scranton areas where I do 90% of my gigs contracts are not used... (we rarely go south of Hazleton but I am sure its more of the same) Hell, even our casino gig doesn't use one! So I understand. I also tried to imagine myself in this situation. You get there the bar manager changes the deal. I would have most likely risked it and played the gig too... A matter of fact something like this DID happen to us a few times that I can remember. One was back somewhere around 2005. We we handed about half of our asking price at the end of they night and the bar manager pretty much ran out the back door. leaving us and a young bartender girl to pretty much close the place. - the place closed soon after- Another You may remember a rant I posted maybe 2 years ago about a place screwing us and changing the deal after we got there... I even made a cartoon about it... The owner did see it too. wasn't too happy. [video=youtube;pyOTGY_y0dY] When I posted it to facebook So many musicians from the area guessed correctly as to which club I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. I agree! The fact that the new manager didn't call your band to tell you of their new "playing for the door policy" shows their disregard for bands. Mark them off the list. If they treat everyone like they treat you guys, chances are that they will be out of business in 6 months or less anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's an online complaint form, not a forum. Ok, that's semantics...the site you submitted the form to is owned by the venue, yes?Point still stands; they have the option to simply ignore the complaints, and there's the potential that nobody would see them in the first place. Ask yourself if you're actually trying to accomplish something with the complaints, or if you're just venting. If you want to change things, IMO, you and whomever else need to settle down a bit and act a bit more mature in the language of the complaints copied here, and proceed with action that is more likely to elicit the change you're hoping for. I personally don't see that happening by submitting a bunch of "YOU SUCK! and the food is crappy too!" entries to their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hey, UPDATE!! You guys frigging ROCK!!! Between the facebook campaign, and all of you people here e-blasting them, the owner called me and apologized and is writing a check for the difference for me to pick up after work tonight! He even said he would guarantee the $400 if we decide to fill out the rest of our rotation. I told him there were trust issues, and asked if he would do a contract, and he said yes. So now the band has to meet and decide if we even want to, and if we alienated too many people from the place to make it worth while... So he asked me to "call off the dogs".... Thanks, you guys {censored}ing rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ok, that's semantics...the site you submitted the form to is owned by the venue, yes? Point still stands; they have the option to simply ignore the complaints, and there's the potential that nobody would see them in the first place. Ask yourself if you're actually trying to accomplish something with the complaints, or if you're just venting. If you want to change things, IMO, you and whomever else need to settle down a bit and act a bit more mature in the language of the complaints copied here, and proceed with action that is more likely to elicit the change you're hoping for. I personally don't see that happening by submitting a bunch of "YOU SUCK! and the food is crappy too!" entries to their site. ^^ our mission was to get our $$ promised, and successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well it's not an approach I would use either... but again, I wouldn't find myself in that situation. It really comes down to this. I emphathize with the OP, but the only meaningful thing to do is learn from the experience so it doesn't happen again. Contracts are generally useless in small bar situations. Retaliating on Facebook might may you feel better, but there's no guarantee it will accomplish anything; might even backfire. Bottom line is to keep Your Mind on Your Money and Your Money on Your Mind. If you gotta work for the door, make sure you've got your own guy at the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Congrats, I just saw the post on FB. Social Networks are a powerful thing nowadays! Working for the door can be its own thread but let me say this. We have done it in the past, especially in the beginning. We have been screwed almost 100% of the time we let someone besides a band friend work the door. When we had a friend at the door, (usually one of our bassist's brothers who are big tough men) we usually either brought in close to what we were asking or above what we were asking. Door is a risk but sometimes it can REALLY pay off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Congrats, I just saw the post on FB. Social Networks are a powerful thing nowadays! Working for the door can be its own thread but let me say this. We have done it in the past, especially in the beginning. We have been screwed almost 100% of the time we let someone besides a band friend work the door. When we had a friend at the door, (usually one of our bassist's brothers who are big tough men) we usually either brought in close to what we were asking or above what we were asking. Door is a risk but sometimes it can REALLY pay off! I don't disagree, we really made it a point to no longer play for doors, as we've got a name, a decent following, and are frankly one of the better drawing bands in the area- But we surely would have brought our own doorman had we any indication that we were playing for the door- since we didn't know, we couldn't prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't disagree, we really made it a point to no longer play for doors, as we've got a name, a decent following, and are frankly one of the better drawing bands in the area- But we surely would have brought our own doorman had we any indication that we were playing for the door- since we didn't know, we couldn't prepare. Glad to hear it worked out and your got what you were owed. That's way cool! But as far as saying you didn't have a chance to bring your own doorman---didn't you say you had a bunch of friends show up for the gig? Surely you could have found one or two willing to help out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hey, UPDATE!!You guys frigging ROCK!!!Between the facebook campaign, and all of you people here e-blasting them, the owner called me and apologized and is writing a check for the difference for me to pick up after work tonight!He even said he would guarantee the $400 if we decide to fill out the rest of our rotation. I told him there were trust issues, and asked if he would do a contract, and he said yes.So now the band has to meet and decide if we even want to, and if we alienated too many people from the place to make it worth while...So he asked me to "call off the dogs"....Thanks, you guys {censored}ing rule! I'm glad it worked out. But I think too much damage is done to preserve a relationship with them ie facebook. How many of your friends and fans will show up to your next show now that you've publicly bashed them? Collect the check, cash it, then call and say you decided to forgo any prefessional relationship with Cali grill place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 might even backfire. In a small way, it did. One of the waitresses there was a follower of our band- she had the potential to add friends/family of hers to our pool, but she's pretty pissed that we trashed her employer.. not that it had anything to do with her, but by telling people not to go there, we are potentially hurting her in the process. I understand that.. if there were ever a stronger example of "friendly fire".. it's a bummer, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Glad to hear it worked out and your got what you were owed. That's way cool! But as far as saying you didn't have a chance to bring your own doorman---didn't you say you had a bunch of friends show up for the gig? Surely you could have found one or two willing to help out? I guess I just don't have the balls to ask someone to work when they came out to party. I know I wouldn't want anyone to ask that of me.. A Sat night in on the other side of the stage is a rarity for me! I have worked the doors for other bands, but it was always set up beforehand. I guess I just don't want to ruin someone's night out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 In a small way, it did. One of the waitresses there was a follower of our band- she had the potential to add friends/family of hers to our pool, but she's pretty pissed that we trashed her employer.. not that it had anything to do with her, but by telling people not to go there, we are potentially hurting her in the process. I understand that.. if there were ever a stronger example of "friendly fire".. it's a bummer, for sure. Yeah, it's nice it worked out it this case, but the problem I see with this sort of internet attack is it quickly veers off (as this one did a bit) into the land of "we hate you; your food sucks; your dog is ugly; your mamma wears combat boots" and other broad-based insults that gives the venue no useful feedback and the spammers no credibility and lessens the value of the legitimate complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess I just don't have the balls to ask someone to work when they came out to party. I know I wouldn't want anyone to ask that of me.. A Sat night in on the other side of the stage is a rarity for me! I have worked the doors for other bands, but it was always set up beforehand. I guess I just don't want to ruin someone's night out. Understandable. If there was noone there you felt that close to, then that's the situation at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess I just don't have the balls to ask someone to work when they came out to party. I know I wouldn't want anyone to ask that of me.. A Sat night in on the other side of the stage is a rarity for me! I have worked the doors for other bands, but it was always set up beforehand. I guess I just don't want to ruin someone's night out. yeah I couldn't stick one of my friends at the door for the whole night unless it was discussed before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mineame Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't have played the gig. As soon as they told me we're not honoring the guarantee and you're playing for the door, I'd have loaded out and gone home. Your friends who showed up should understand. This right here. My last band got {censored}ed over by a bar (different circumstances). When we didn't play the gig, what did our friends do? They supported us by phoning the club every couple of minutes and reaming them for not honoring the gig. Some even walked in, very loudly asked where the band was, and said equally as loudly said {censored} it we're out of here. I imagine your friends would have walked out with you, and made it publicly known as to why. Then said manager could have watched you AND your fan base walk out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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