"Start from scratch" -- craigslist ad. And I responded.....

[modulusman]

Yep, the old revolving door (Modulusman: Yeah, I do have a sub. Planning on getting another one before too long. )

 

Actually you will need 3 more. Just kidding. You never know you might find someone to join your project that has a bunch of PA gear. Then you can combine or use whatever gear is best. Anyway good luck.

[Yer Blues]

Good luck. I have found it much easier to join established bands as the missing piece. I tried putting a band together once, but it took so long I just said forget it and joined another band. I want to put together an original band, but I haven't even given it a shot because I am so discouraged in regards to what I will most likely find. There's no reward other than the music and I don't think anyone whose been around would want to put in the work for no result, i.e. no money.

[wades_keys]

Actually you will need 3 more. Just kidding. You never know you might find someone to join your project that has a bunch of PA gear. Then you can combine or use whatever gear is best. Anyway good luck.

Yeah, exactly. "one piece at a time, and it won't cost me a dime...."

[Vito Corleone]

 

Yeah, that's it. I don't even like thinking in terms of titles, like "musical director". Just work together, like you said....perfect

 

 

Yeah, just don't get too far ahead of yourself here. Sounds to me like you've had some bad experiences with players in the past but don't worry too much about fixing what you don't even know is broken. Hopefully this guy and whoever else you add to the project will be good enough players with reasonable enough egos that you won't have to really worry to much about wrong chords and bad notes and how to address the ones that do come up.

 

At least it sounds like you and this guy would be on the same page as far as material and band direction goes. That's a good start. Good luck!

[kmart]

THIS...

...I don't want to have THAT much "power"...

...regardless of how you approach, describe, communicate, etc., will almost certainly be perceived to be mutually exclusive items, period": a 'cake and eat it too' scenario, plain and simple.

Sorry, but especially as you're not going to front the band and/or write all the material, etc. and don't have a proven/successful track record of already being that kind of guy, what you want to do/are asking for is going to be seen as wanting to have the 'power', period, and obviously, that's going to be a struggle.

Let's assume you and guy #1 agree to start working together under those terms. When it comes time to bring guy #2 in and you lay that on him...assuming he's got minimal capabilities/experience, what would make it worthwhile for him to give up that control to you, an unproven commodity, in a start-up project? What are you offering him in return?
Nothing.

Good luck if that's how you're going to approach it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you struggle. What you're asking for is something that has to be earned/given, and that doesn't happen out of the gate.

[stratotastic]

Good leaders have certain qualities about them that command respect. Things like personality type, confidence, wisdom, and knowing how to get the most out of others, among other intangibles. The harder you have to convince people that you're a leader, the less fit you probably are to actually be one. Leaders naturally lead, they don't have to force themselves into that position.

 

I don't know you aside from some of your informative, but also oftentimes strongly opinionated and unyielding posts on here. I think the biggest thing about leading anything is learning the power of compromise and knowing which battles are worth fighting and which are best left alone.

 

A partnership can very well work, but as it's been said already, you just have to be with the right partner. Spend time with the person, see what they're all about and what they want to achieve, and try to find that middle ground. My band is essentially a partnership; sort of a CEO/COO deal. Works great for us. The key thing is that we have the same goals, listen to each other, and have different sets of strengths/weaknesses that mesh well. It can be done if you find the right person.

 

Good luck.

[wades_keys]

 

THIS... And THIS... ...regardless of how you approach, describe, communicate, etc., will almost certainly be perceived to be mutually exclusive items, period": a 'cake and eat it too' scenario, plain and simple. Sorry, but especially as you're not going to front the band and/or write all the material, etc. and don't have a proven/successful track record of already being that kind of guy , what you want to do/are asking for is going to be seen as wanting to have the 'power', period, and obviously, that's going to be a struggle. Let's assume you and guy #1 agree to start working together under those terms. When it comes time to bring guy #2 in and you lay that on him...assuming he's got minimal capabilities/experience, what would make it worthwhile for him to give up that control to you, an unproven commodity, in a start-up project? What are you offering him in return? Nothing. Good luck if that's how you're going to approach it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you struggle. What you're asking for is something that has to be earned/given, and that doesn't happen out of the gate.

 

Oh yeah. Making music comes first. Always. I'm just gonna get together and see what's up. Try to call a guitarist I know and vibe with real well on musical and personal level, take it from there.

[chevybusa]

Hey Wade. Been there done that, back when I was gigging I got so sick of dealing with flakes and egos all the nonsense that I thought that if I got my own PA and mics and all that and basically just had a bunch of hired guns it'd be great. Well, it turned out to be a classic example of same {censored}, different day...unless you get really lucky and get a group of guys that truly are happy with just playing whatever the {censored} you want them to and how you want them to for a paycheck (and that actually have the talent and committment) it's gonna be the same {censored} as if you're putting together a "regular" band, no matter how much they claim they're cool with you making the rules and all that, they'll either get sick of it pretty quick and either flake out or will completely forget about their hired gun role and start demanding all kinds of input, or will just completely BS you about being on that page just to get the gig then will completely be the opposite. YMMV, this was just my own personal experience with it. Good luck.

[VinylMan]

But that's the thing. I don't want to have THAT much "power". I'm not a front guy. I would rather be more like Alan Parsons, controlling or having final say over sound issues and arrangements. Most of those things the other guys don't REALLY want to deal with anyway. They just want to play and get paid, and have some say in their parts and in song selection. All that would be the case. I just want to bring what I feel are my talents to the arrangement table to get things TIGHT and mistake-rree. Mistakes and lack of confidence are what I see holding a lot of good players back. I'd like to help those type of guys (and myself) reach their potential through repetition and charted, confident musical arrangements. My knowledge of theory and composition would and I think SHOULD be an asset in allowing this to happen. Not to wave dick or shut out other players, but to resolve, edify, and really guide everyone down a mistake free path.

 

 

Man if you were in Chicago with that skill set and desire you'd be in my band in a NY minute. I run the band, book all the gigs, formed the act and am the front man. I also own the PA and the LAST thing I like doing is worrying about the sound too on top of all the crap I already do. Nobody in my band much gives a crap. I'd LOVE to have a guy with the knowledge, skill set and desire to want to nail the sound.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Nobody in my band much gives a crap. I'd LOVE to have a guy with the knowledge, skill set and desire to want to nail the sound.

 

 

Yeah, but they have to give a crap. Usually what that means is that they'll play the songs they know the way they played them in previous bands. Good luck getting them to change "Superstition" from SRV back to Stevie Wonder . . . . and in my book you absolutely DO have to agree on whether or not you're going to alter the 5ths. The best approach to start with is to come up with a proposed song list that includes several that have different versions. Which version they pick will tell you where their roots are, and it isn't likely to change.

[dalejanus]

Partly because I have a bit bigger project going on, so I'm more able to do this more than some other bands might, but I run my band in the manner I've learned from running successful retail operations: I take on the role of "general manager" and I have various "assistants" who handle different "departments". I organize the general game-plan--with input from everyone, of course--and, depending on their strengths, different people handle different operations. My bass player handles booking the gigs because he's the "salesman". My drummer is the "musical director" and he and I work together on the song choices and arrangements. One of the singers takes control of the gig after it is booked and she is the contact person who handles all the details. The other two don't really want to do much more than just show and up and play, so that's what they do. Everyone is as involved as they want to be, but it all flows through me and I set the overriding agenda. MY main job ends up being making sure they understand what they need to do, why they need to do it, and making sure it gets done. So it's neither a democracy nor a dictatorship really. More of top-down corporate board-of-directors type operation.

 

 

 

Holy Sh*t, this is exactly it. Departments. Where do I find such people who can play and are willing to do some part of the business stuff?

 

I have got a very good set of musicians in our cover band, and some are pretty good about suggesting song selections. We are a horn band and we have a young guy willing and able to do charts.

But that's about it. Everything else falls to me. Most would rather just show up and play. And then there are the times (which are normal and acceptable, we all have lives to live) when they say "I can't make the gig, find a sub". So far I have been able to do it, but there were a few gigs when I found the sub the day of the gig.

 

I see all the things that need done and do as many as I can as best as I can. I sure would like other band members to do more since a lot of stuff does not get done. I'm only one guy with a full time day job, family, the usual reasons.

 

Then again, I have not explicitly said "you do this, you call that person". I gotta get my head around this and figure out how to get started on this stuff. I guess a list of tasks would be a good first step.

 

As you said, a band is a weird combination of music, business and friendship. We've been getting by for 20 years, so we must have some of it right.

[Vito Corleone]

Holy Sh*t, this is exactly it. Departments. Where do I find such people who can play and are willing to do some part of the business stuff? I have got a very good set of musicians in our cover band, and some are pretty good about suggesting song selections. We are a horn band and we have a young guy willing and able to do charts. But that's about it. Everything else falls to me. Most would rather just show up and play. And then there are the times (which are normal and acceptable, we all have lives to live) when they say "I can't make the gig, find a sub". So far I have been able to do it, but there were a few gigs when I found the sub the day of the gig. I see all the things that need done and do as many as I can as best as I can. I sure would like other band members to do more since a lot of stuff does not get done. I'm only one guy with a full time day job, family, the usual reasons. Then again, I have not explicitly said "you do this, you call that person". I gotta get my head around this and figure out how to get started on this stuff. I guess a list of tasks would be a good first step. As you said, a band is a weird combination of music, business and friendship. We've been getting by for 20 years, so we must have some of it right.

 

 

That so many of them would rather just show up and play must mean that you are doing a lot of stuff right. They obviously trust your vision and your skills. If you're taking care of everything and the band is humming along, they probably don't see any reason TO do anything.

 

So yeah, a list of tasks is probably the first step. and then just let some people know---hey, I'm not able to do all this stuff the way it needs to be done--can I get some help here!