Is there a "Backing Tracks 101" somewhere?

[stratotastic]

We're looking to start working backing tracks into our shows. We currently do double duty (bass player switches to keys; I switch to bass for certain songs) but that limits our flexibility as we have to block most of the keys songs together to keep things moving. We've auditioned a number of keyboard players, and may go that route eventually, but it's another mouth to feed and schedule to work around.

 

So....... We're thinking of giving the backing tracks thing a whirl. My keyboard/bass player already has a system set up where he uses his laptop as his tone generator, and knows a little bit about Reaper and a couple other programs. But as far as actually creating pre-made tracks to trigger during songs and play along with, we're starting at ground zero. He seems to think it's some insurmountable task to get this going, but since a lot of people do it, including you guys, it can't be all THAT hard, can it??

 

Some of the things we want to find out:

 

- Aside from constructing them from scratch, is there a place where you can get pre-made tracks?

- Anyone hire people to make tracks for them?

- Do people share tracks?

- What is some "standard" software and file types that people use (if any)?

- How do you work in the click track, esp getting it to the drummer?

- Can you tap tempo?

- Any extra equipment you need (mixers, headphone amps, etc.)?

- And mostly, how much of a pain in the ass is it to get set up?

 

If there is a good resource for this info, please feel free to point me there, but I know some of you guys have real world experience that I could definitely learn from.

 

Thanks,

Nate

[mstreck]

I've read on here that tracks don't work. Especially if they are run by a laptop. Talk to Grant about it. They tried it and it sounded "dead", so they play everything live.

 

FWIW, I bought a Korg microsampler for one-shots. I plan on using it for washes, etc., but not actual sequences.

[992gnt]

We are using them, jury is still out as to if we will keep them or not. They sounds fine, it's just another potential disaster during the show. As for your questions:

 

 

If there is a good resource for this info, please feel free to point me there, but I know some of you guys have real world experience that I could definitely learn from. Thanks, Nate

 

 

I can dig up some of my sources if you want to check things out.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I've read on here that tracks don't work.

 

 

I wouldn't take it that far. A LOT of bands use tracks. I'm not a fan of it myself (and don't use them), but a lot of bands do and--like anything else---how well it comes off depends on what the band does with them and how well they use them.

 

One of the main "competition" bands in our area uses some tracks. Not a lot. I THINK. I can't tell. They use them very well. One of my singers recently went to one of their shows and came back and told me "they don't use tracks". Well, I've been to their show and I KNOW they do--in fact, I pulled out my camera and videotaped them play a song with a bunch of keyboard parts and no keyboard player even on stage.

 

At that point it was obvious. To me. To even my SINGER it wasn't as obvious because --- at least on the songs she heard -- they used them so seamlessly that it wasn't immediately obvious.

 

To put it as simply (probably too simply) as possible: I'd say that if you use them as an 'enhancement' rather than a 'crutch', you'll be fine. But when you start relying on them for the basis of your sound, that's when things will start to sound 'dead'.

[Potts]

I'm missing something...You don't have a drummer correct? I don't think until we know what you're looking to do you'll get an accurate answer. Are you looking for tracks with drums, guitars and stuff or just stuff to supplement what you're already doing?

[mstreck]

To put it as simply (probably too simply) as possible: I'd say that if you use them as an 'enhancement' rather than a 'crutch', you'll be fine. But when you start relying on them for the basis of your sound, that's when things will start to sound 'dead'.

 

I think one of the problems that someone pointed out was that tracks that were used for "main" instrumentation ended up lost in the mix.

 

That being said, we do use a piano track for the intro to Don't Stop Beleivin', but it drops out when the full band comes in ("Strangers waiting..."), so it never gets lost in the mix.

[stratotastic]

Thanks for the insights.

 

We are a full 5-piece band with drums. We are not looking for tracks to be our main instrumentation or anything like that, just as some accents here and there. Maybe horn parts, strings, pads, or some of the outlandish type stuff you hear in some hip hop songs or whatever. Also would like to use it to increase our flexiblity--as it is now, we switch instruments (I go to bass and bass player goes to keys) for keyboard songs so we end up having to block them all together if we don't want to have to stop to switch back and forth all the time. A big part of our thing is to keep the show going with as few pauses/breaks as possible. Also our bass player would really rather stick to bass and not play keys as much.

[BATCAT]

I play with a band that uses tracks on some songs for stuff like secondary (or tertiary) keyboard/synth parts, samples, guitar with difficult-to-reproduce treatments, and so on. We do it pretty much like 992, except we don't even use a mixer, just a splitter cable.

 

It's not really that hard, but IME it takes a little work to get everything set up properly and for the drummer to get comfortable.

[GCDEF]

MIDI is probably the easiest to work with and there are MIDI files all over the net. With a sequencer, you can turn whatever parts you want on or off, transpose, adjust the tempo, add your own parts. If you want to feed a click to your drummer, you should be able to add a metronome and pan it hard to one side, and the instruments to the other. Feed the drummer's monitor the metronome track.

 

I think you'd probably find it easier to adapt the songs than try to work with tracks. Unless your drummer is used to playing with a click, he'll have a pretty hard time with it.

[dan88z]

What GCDEF says is true, but even easier is to an mp3 player. Have a click track on one side that the drummer gets in his ear, and the audio on the other side that goes to the house. The biggest problem with any of this is recording the tracks and getting the preproduction done.

[kmart]

I've read on here that tracks don't work. Especially if they are run by a laptop.

 

Wow. I'm glad we and our audiences never heard that particular 'truism'...

 

 

We run tracks and they work.

 

So does the laptop they run from.

 

 

To the OP, I would say there's never likely to be a '101' primer on using tracks/sequences simply because there are numerous options one can exercise when going about attempting it, at just about every opportunity you have to make a decision...

 

 

Choices upon choices upon choices.

And every one of them more or less right/wrong depending entirely on your unique situation.

 

 

One thing I would specifically recommend to the OP though:

 

Do NOT rely on pre-made tracks. Largely garbage, poor sounding, etc. Sure-fire short-cut to ending up incredibly unhappy with your first foray into tracks.

 

You want them to work well/sound right?

Put in the work.

[kmart]

I would also counter (or at least clarify) what appears to be the recommended panning for tracks vs. click to a drummer: seems (at least to me) a couple here are saying send only the click to the drummer's feed and tracks only to house...

 

You want to send the tracks to the drummer as well along with the click.

[stratotastic]

 

One thing I would specifically recommend to the OP though: Do NOT rely on pre-made tracks. Largely garbage, poor sounding, etc. Sure-fire short-cut to ending up incredibly unhappy with your first foray into tracks. You want them to work well/sound right? Put in the work.

 

 

Cool, thanks. My idea of getting some pre-mades is just so the basic structure is there and maybe anything that can be salvaged. I'd approach it like an effects unit--presets are always garbage, but there's still a basic foundation there you can build off of. (At least in theory, haha.) But I won't really know till we get into it. It's the type of thing I could totally dork out with so I'd probably have no problem doing any of it once we get going. Just need to know what I need to get started. I got Reaper so maybe I'll try to find a few tracks to play with...

 

I do like the idea of the MIDI--seems like you have a lot more control over it, vs an mp3.

[Leftcoast123]

 

I would also counter (or at least clarify) what appears to be the recommended panning for tracks vs. click to a drummer: seems (at least to me) a couple here are saying send only the click to the drummer's feed and tracks only to house... You want to send the tracks to the drummer as well along with the click.

 

 

100%. Here's a very basic explanation on how I do this: device (playing MP3's) with Left Ch (click) to my sub-mixer, Righ Ch (program) to DI. XLR from DI to FOH. At DI Insturment OUT back to another channel on my sub-mixer so I can blend program to how much click I want back into my IEM mix.

[MusicalSchizo]

I'm sorry, mstreck, but the business of actual fully LIVE bands here is being taken up by a TON of track bands, and people absolutely love them and don't notice or care that they're borderline Karaoke bands sometimes. They 100% work. I politely and respectfully disagree.

 

The most important thing for BTs to work is having the drummer be able to hear the click track. No one else really needs to hear it - just pipe that into the drummer's monitor (hopefully in-ear or he'll wear headphones) and you should be good if they're at all competent.

 

For playback stability, go with a reliable player of some sort (an iPod or iPad or even some cheap-ass Sansa player will work). For flexibility, use a laptop.

 

You can use pretty much any player software to play the tracks back, but it's best to use one that stops each track as it ends and forces you to hit play to start the next one. It's also good to have one that allows you to edit setlists and stuff on the fly and has good music library search functions to find songs that might not be on the setlist. If you really want to get fancy you can use MIDI. A lot of people find decent MIDIs on the web and then customize them to taste in their DAW, muting drums and the bogus melodies they put on them and adding vocals or real guitars to beef them up. If you know how to do that, you can save a PILE of money on buying pre-made tracks.

 

It does take practice getting the arrangements right so you don't trainwreck or get off the track (it's hardest for the singer, IMO, because they always have to come in at the right time), and you are limited to the arrangement as it exists, which can be a bummer sometimes, but playing with tracks is a great way to get a lot of sound out of a small ensemble. You just have to be judicious in how you use them so you don't cross over into karaoke territory.

 

Good luck!

Brian V.

[mstreck]

I'm sorry, mstreck, but the business of actual fully LIVE bands here is being taken up by a TON of track bands, and people absolutely love them and don't notice or care that they're borderline Karaoke bands sometimes. They 100% work. I politely and respectfully disagree.

 

*I* didn't say they didn't work. That's just the impression I got from previous posts here.

 

I'm actually interested in learning about ways to use them. I would prefer to use them as a supplement to what we do - not be part of a backing track's backup band, if that makes any sense.

[Sarricola_Sauce]

I'm stoked to keep this thread goin but i'm at work.........

 

 

........but i'm building a female fronted top40 coverband with tracks. I'll be playing keys but we'll be using tracks also....

 

 

many of the top dollar bands in my area are heavily tracked. Many can a lot of their vocals. I've been building tracks for my band on fruity loops and i'd be stoked to share some of what i've built with the forum if anyone is intersted. Their all custom for our group.

[Sarricola_Sauce]

One top tier band in my area tracks much of their backup vocals, falstettos and paticular parts that may be 'crap' shoot to pull off live. Songs like 'everybody dance now' by markie mark come to mind. The idea is to keep the singer as real as possible but fill in anything that's iffy or cant be risked to sound even slightly less than perfect. Songs with huge washes of harmony like Africa by Toto are prime fodder for canning vocals

[mstreck]

Holy crap! Is it this abundant everywhere?????

 

I need to get out more.

[n9ne]

For those who are using backing tracks, or frequently see bands using them.....how often are bands using samples taken directly from the original tracks? And do people seem to notice (or care) when a band is clearly augmenting their own performance with pieces of the original recording?

[Sarricola_Sauce]

 

For those who are using backing tracks, or frequently see bands using them.....how often are bands using samples taken directly from the original tracks? And do people seem to notice (or care) when a band is clearly augmenting their own performance with pieces of the original recording?

 

 

good question. My bandmates and I have been scouting and so far the few we've seen don't sound like the real stems to my ears. Generally they're under produced compared to the real track. Lead patches are sometimes only 'close to the real thing'. Lil' things will be ommited, etc.

 

At least one band in the area that's high dollar self producer their own tracks and they tend to be the most glossy.

 

Also, under produced tracks arent bad maybe. I've been working up a mix of bare bones and super complex tracks and sometimes the really accurate ones are a total mess. Modern dance tracks with swoooshes and sweeps that arent kinda weird to EQ. My group hasn't really gotten our hands dirty yet with the EQ thing so I'm at a loss with a lot of it here too.

[Sarricola_Sauce]

Also, as for samples from the orginal:

 

I've been stealing parts from the original tracks whenever possible. Anytime a lead synth goes solo you have the oppurtunity to lift it. I've also lifted vocal parts that are accapella and 'downtune' or have a trippy effect and have them drop in as the real vocalist backs off.

 

Anything that gets remixed a lot often has stems floating around which can allow you to get a super hot track super quick. Anything modern is played to a click so you can lock the master into your DAW and drop parts in and A/B em'.

 

The dance stuff (Lady gaga all day long) is popular for aspiring producers to remix and they pass their personal stems around too................. you just gotta dig.

[tshapiro]

Always buy backing tracks premade bc they sound good and no one can tell if you spent 30 hours making or customizing one. Virtual DJ on a laptop is the best way to go. A usb to 1/4" converter ensures a good connection. The band should know the backing track inside and out - there is no screwing up the song structure or its a mess. Having one person near the soundboard to eq the tracks is essential for the best performance. Quickly tweaking the volume and eq will help the blend stay unnoticeable. Being able to run tracks without looking like you are is an art. It takes many shows to get it right. Best not to use fancy routing and splitters. Just pump it through the monitors. One of the biggest advantages is the drum sound the tracks give. It's very hard to mic up a kit to sound as good as most tracks. Avoid singing over the backup vocals on a track or you will sound like a camp fire group where everyone sings the same part. Always try and pull a harmony. A major key is to be able to call up any track at will. Pre made setlists are a pain and inflexible that's why virtual dj on a laptop is best. An ipod works but is touchier. Choose tracks that sound good live. Tracks with heavy mid from synth or guitar cut through the mix too much. Low end and minor contributions work best. If you are good at it you can play right over the original song. Song selection and time of night is very important. For example, Sweet Caroline at the very end of the night works well for this. Honestly, I have done it dozens of times and no one has ever once mentioned that we played and sang right over the original. It's best to embellish these types of songs.

[dan88z]

 

Cool, thanks. My idea of getting some pre-mades is just so the basic structure is there and maybe anything that can be salvaged. I'd approach it like an effects unit--presets are always garbage, but there's still a basic foundation there you can build off of. (At least in theory, haha.) But I won't really know till we get into it. It's the type of thing I could totally dork out with so I'd probably have no problem doing any of it once we get going. Just need to know what I need to get started. I got Reaper so maybe I'll try to find a few tracks to play with... I do like the idea of the MIDI--seems like you have a lot more control over it, vs an mp3.

 

 

Definitely more control over midi, but then you need some kind of playback sound engine- a multi-timbral keyboard, laptop running a sequencing program with soft synths, etc.

 

Back in the late 80's I had an original band that sequenced just about everything. It was me, the front man who also played guitar, and 3 girl backup singers. I programmed every part on a very basic rig- Alesis MMT8 sequencer, SR16 drum machine, Emu Proteus 1 module, Roland JX10 and Roland Juno 106. The MMT8 only had a little bit of memory, enough to hold about 3 songs worth of data, so every 3 songs I'd have to load the next 3 from a Yamaha datadisk. It only took 30 seconds or so but I don't think I ever worked so hard in a band getting all of that stuff dialed in. I'd play 1 or 2 parts live and let the sequencer handle the rest. It was a lot of fun but I don't think I'd do it again.

[wheresgrant3]

I've read on here that tracks don't work. Especially if they are run by a laptop. Talk to Grant about it. They tried it and it sounded "dead", so they play everything live. FWIW, I bought a Korg microsampler for one-shots. I plan on using it for washes, etc., but not actual sequences.

 

... I've never said that tracks don't or can't work. We've used backing tracks for a few years... it's tracks we've created and play along to via an Akai sampler (no click though). I have seen many, many bands that have miss used them, abused them, relied on them in such a way that sure, maybe the audience doesn't know or care... but they are still not really selling the song in the first place just because the band is able to play along with the track. Common examples of EPIC FAIL I've observed...

 

...bands complete dependency on the track (The band really isn't playing anything, just rolling along in time to the track... the track stops and the show's over. Dr. Smith, WARNING WARNING!!! Reboot, Reboot!!!!)

 

... the track being pumped IN FRONT of the band instead of behind the band... In other words, it's obvious that the band is playing to a prerecorded track... especially when you hear Little Wayne rapping and well... he isn't on stage. Or worse, one of the white chumps starts lip syncing the rap.

 

... bands using layered prerecorded backing vocals... ala karaoke. I've actually witnessed one band who actually sang along with a wall of vocals. When I inquired between sets why they were using them the drummer shrugged. "Yeah... how is are singer going to replicate 3 part backing harmonies in a Rhianna tune?" The answer? Don't. The audience doesn't expect 3 part harmony backing vocals and as a 4 piece band you look silly singing Adele "We could of had it allllllllllllll" with pre-recorded (You're gonna wish you never had met me).

 

So my beef isn't that they are used, it's how they are used. I can point to a select few bands I've witnessed who can seemlessly pull off using backing tracks... talented and capable musicians who weave tracks in seamlessly to 'fill in the gaps' of parts they can't cover. They are not just downloading a track, and playing to it, in place of pulling the song off. They usually have a dedicated sound engineer, sound guy... someone running the track or mixing from the board. I once saw a singer walk stage left, to a laptop, start running the track so the drummer with air traffic controller sized headphones could start locking into the beat, and then returned to the stage to start singing. Um... at that point why don't you just put a boom box over your head ala John Cusak in "Say Anything".

 

I recently witnessed video of a regional club band band playing "Sexy And I Know It". Playing is probably not the correct verbage, because it was nothing more than a rock band who simply opted out while a pre-recorded Karaokee track played. The band isn't leading the performance the track is. You can see at the end of the video the band isn't even sure when the track ends. They downloaded the track from here http://www.karaoke-version.com/ and are using the track to deliver the entire song, not just 'fill in some gaps.

 

Supporting tracks are supporting tracks so the rest of the band can shine... not just get through the song. They aren't covering parts in place of. How awkward would it be to have a cover band playing a Van Halen song and have the original guitar solo pumped over the mix... or worse a guitar player trying to mimic playing the solo. Where does the support end and the abuse begin? Many musicians will pat themselves on the back and say "Well I hate using them but the audience doesn't care". Trust me, unless you are in the audience you'll never know will you. And unless you are increasing your audience well then, maybe the use of those tracks aren't helping? The entire room should be focused on what you are delivering, not what's missing.