Members FitchFY Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 The club last night only uses Karaoke or a DJ Last night during load-in the bartender asks me : ".....so what is it that you do again? You sing and play guitar?? Is there any music???" This is where you remove a glove from your jacket, slap him with it, and challenge him to a duel for your honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.Paul Posted November 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 I think what is missing is not whether or not something is or isn't live music but rather what is or isn't entertainment that will make the club owner money and therefore get you hired........... And what can musicians learn form that to get back on that stage and make a living from it (assuming that you do want to make a living from it)? That's more of a bigger picture perspective ...This club is not an entertainment destination.There is no pole dancing, dog show night, free movie night, family bowling, dart tournament, ball shaving contest, bingo, ad infinitum.... It's just a place to drink beer after work in the middle of nowhere. If they didn't have karaoke their business would drop MAYBE 5% at the most... so (in this particular instance) it's not a matter of convincing a buyer of the entertainment value. It was a matter of just staying out of the way and making the sell. There is a sign outside that says "Live Music" .....(turns out he has never had a band there). So I walked in cold turkey (w/ no research) on the way home from a show got the info, called the owner the next morning (based on a sign that says " Live Music")....it actually took awhile for him to understand that I wasn't a DJ / Karaoke guy. To him karaoke IS live music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 Perhaps the owner thinks Live person = Live music? end of discussion in the owners eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.Paul Posted November 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 Perhaps the owner thinks Live person = Live music? end of discussion in the owners eyes. yeah I think you're right, (yesterday somebody posted "tonight : Live DJ"....... lol, same thing) That's why I made this thread because for all I know he is an isolated example and it's just his opinion, but if more and more people feel the same way as he does, then he is not isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.Paul Posted November 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 This is where you remove a glove from your jacket, slap him with it, and challenge him to a duel for your honor. The hell of it is it went really well and a bunch of peeps were dancing and having a ball (and tipping)and then they got chased out at 10 when the bar closed early....http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2965815-guilt&p=47110334&posted=1#post47110334 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 Do you guys have a live band karaoke where you're at?? There is a venue around here that does band karaoke. Always with the same band - and I think on a weeknight? I'm not sure if the band that does the karaoke plays anywhere else. But that same venue has full bands on the weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 I don't think so- although Christina fans might be more LIKELY to. And even those would know the difference between her singing to karaoke tracks vs with a band, IMO- regardless of the semantics or labeling involved. Yes, that's my point. People WOULD know that she was singing live either way, and would therefore consider it a live performance by her. I don't think they'd give a {censored} whether she sang with a band or not. Or where the tracks came from or how they were produced. Hell, I'm a musician and I'M having a hard time seeing why the difference between somebody singing along to a karaoke machine and somebody singing along to 'tracks' and calling themselves a "solo act" is so large that one can be objectively be called live and the other not. And if I'm having a hard time with that distinction, then I really can't see how non-musicians are going to make it. A lot of this seems to come to: musicians expecting the general public to draw lines that nobody but musicians care about. Well, here's the truth: they aren't gonna care. They are just either going to like what they see or not. So rather than trying to berate audience members or clubowners into understanding the fine lines between when a performance is 'live' and when it is not because of how the backing tracks were made or the nature of the type of singing it is, the only thing to do is be a better product. Few clubowners are going to pay you more money than the karaoke dude just because you insist that what you do is 'real' and 'live' if he can make as much money or more with the karaoke act. Not if he's interested in staying in business, anyway. So be better than karaoke. Is that really such a high bar to attain? Beats sitting around complaining about how stupid everybody is because they don't know what "real" music is anymore, doncha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 And going back to something I complain about a lot: I think a lot of the confusion stems from the fact that so much of what passes for 'live music' has sucked so much for so long. The difference between 'live music' and karaoke is like the difference between a real sporting event and the TV show "Wipeout!". While the people participating in "Wipeout!" are trying very hard to be good, the real reason the public watches the show is because they want to see people make fools of themselves. Just like karaoke. Difference is: there's little confusion between "Wipeout!" and real sporting events because the real sporting events that people are expected to pay money (or watch advertisements) to see are miles and miles about the level of athletic ability and competition seen on "Wipeout!" The two things can co-exist in the same universe because real, professional sports has done so much to make sure they are much better than common folk making fools of themselves. If only most "live music" was that much better than karaoke, I doubt anybody would confuse the two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toddkuen Posted November 16, 2012 Members Share Posted November 16, 2012 The hell of it is it went really well and a bunch of peeps were dancing and having a ball (and tipping)and then they got chased out at 10 when the bar closed early....http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2965815-guilt&p=47110334&posted=1#post47110334 Maybe you've expanded their notion of "Live Music..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timrocker Posted November 17, 2012 Members Share Posted November 17, 2012 Portland, OR has had a live band with karaoke-style guests for about 15 years now. It caught on so well that now there are two bands in the region that do that. It was attempted here in the Palm Springs area about 4 years ago, and didn't fly. Lately it's seemed to me that live music is in a little bit of a comeback. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J.Paul Posted November 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2012 In a somewhat related note to this thread : last night's gig was w/ a karaoke guy, I would do a set and he would do a set (8-12) interesting... it seemed to work though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted November 17, 2012 Members Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've been hosting karaoke shows on weeknights for 10 years, and have been doing this every Tues, Wed, and Thurs for three years now. My club would never promote karaoke as live music. It's the weeknight karaoke show. When bands play on weekends the club makes big "Live Music" posters up with the name and pic of the band on it. I'm the karaoke show on weeknights at the bottom of the poster. The idea that all karaoke singers are bad is just crazy. I have several regulars who could easily front a band (if there was any money in it anymore), and a couple who really ought to do something with this. These better singers will pack the dance floor just like a band would. Many people go to karaoke bars for reasons unrelated to karaoke. They know that there's going to be people in them on a weeknight and they don't want to be drinking in a dead bar. The singers are the room's seeds. I don't think that there's anything else that can fill a neighborhood bar on weeknights like karaoke does. This 135 seat room is often at capacity on even Tuesday nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted November 17, 2012 Members Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hey there mrcpro, good to see you sir! In the "notes from all over" dept: The club where I play most weekends is deplorably DEAD during the week, except for karaoke on Wed. The owner started booking the most established and popular party band in the area on Thurs., in an effort to drum up business- but to no avail- he still loses $$ after paying the band. This same group takes over one Saturday night a month, and packs the place out- crowds of 400+- same as they pack out any other venue, so the weak Thurs. crowd is not a reflection on them. Maybe it's just a perception among club-goers that "weeknights are made for karaoke". Back when my band played Thurs-Sun every week at the same club, Sundays were "bandaoke". We enjoyed it because it was challenging to wing it on requests and to cover for amateur singers (although several were quite good). Taking part in that convinced me that singers, given a choice, would rather sing with a live band vs a karaoke machine. I believe there IS a market- just few bands that can handle it, what with the demise of the fulltime music scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 I don't know if anyone posted this already, but... http://www.rock-bot.com/home.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 He's an HC member Unalaska. Hangs out in Sound forum, cool dude and a very knowledgeable sound man. Looks like a great bassist from his videos.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 I don't know if anyone posted this already, but... http://www.rock-bot.com/home.cfm Great site and concept! And a very impressive songlist, too! 1) No keyboard player? (at least not described in band line-up of bass-drums-guitar-vox). I suppose they track keys, when necessary. 2) They MUST go by chord charts, iPads, etc., I wonder if their tele-prompter device includes chord symbols? (great solution, IMO). 3) Site describes them as being the NW premiere band karaoke group- so may be more of that kind of scene there. Would be nice for someone to invite Unalaska to chime in here (hint hint). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 Everything is tracked is my understanding and that's how my band is handling it as well. My teleprompter is a wedge with a video monitor in it and it's just the lyrics....my cues have the key and title and artist just ahead of the two bars of click before the track hits. The players know their parts and is a very tough gig to learn. Live karaoke has been around for a long time. I played in one in Ontario starting in 1994 and we had a full calendar. Of course...lyrics were on paper in those days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 Heyall, it's pete from rock-bot. I was cue'd into the discussion here by a fellow member (thats what I get for putting the web page in the sig). I've been around the live/karaoke/DJ discussions as much or more than most, I've been doing this format for going on 9 years now. Karaoke isn't a band but it is entertainment and anyone who plays in a band is competing for entertainment dollars. Used to be Blockbuster was a competitor, now it's netflix, movies, soccer games etc etc. Your band is entertainment right? That's the frame of reference to use, not whether it's live band or not. Anyway, it's way fun. If anyone is in the Pac NW come out and sing with us. The 3pc band does the grunt of the playing, keys/perc etc are sequenced out of necessity since lyrics are on screen. We've been averaging 2-3 nights a week for 2 years now so the band is tight. 600+ songs. On my way to the gig now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 Nice. 600 songs is incredible...and music stands are nowhere to be seen in the photos on your site. We're the same type of line up....drums, gtr, bass and vocalist that is the host and backup vocals (as is the rest of the band) as well as a "vocal coach" to keep a singer moving if needed. Have a good gig Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted November 18, 2012 Members Share Posted November 18, 2012 We don't use music stands for the players. But I do have about 1/2 the songs charted out and some guys use ipad to look up a song or two. TV's are for the singers, I encourage players to make their own notes, it helps the learning curve. Tonite was great, we had a packed house and a very full list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YeahDoIt Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 I had a gig at a restaurant bar last Friday night. I'm playing solo with backing tracks and its going OK. Then some ladies walk in and order drinks. The waitress asks to sing, and soon I have two women at the microphone singing along with me and the backing tracks. It's karaoke at that point. The ladies seemed to be having a great time. Everybody in the bar suddenly seemed to be having a great time so I kept doing it. They asked for a song that I have but it's the real recording, not a backing track. I play the song (while playing guitar), lots of ladies go to the dance floor and start dancing so I'm now a DJ. I keep playing recordings and the ladies keep dancing. The party kept building. I was on the dance floor dancing gangham style with them. At the end of the night the ladies tell me they had a great time. The chef tells me that no other musician has gotten people dancing like that and that I did well. So now I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate all this karaoke and DJ activity into my act, or to have it available as an option. I don't have video displays to show lyrics so the karaoke part is incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Maybe you could invest in a good music stand and an iPad. And a really, really good iPad case. Make sure you have two mic stands set up, so you can help when they get lost. Karaoke patrons also like duets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 karaoke you need karaoke tracks, plus a computer to play it on and then an external monitor. I charge more for karaoke gigs and the reason why is: They always think you have the words for every single track know to man (even the top 40) and also thing they can sing along to it and sound great. We all know when L-users sing to top 40 songs through a PA it is the worst possible trainwreck to man and I'm sorry I just don't allow it. In your case prob be better to make a book with the words on paper in a book with the plastic cover sheets. A. you don't have to drag around another monitor for karaoke words B. you don't have to drag along a laptop to run real karaoke tracks. Assuming you have a track player in your gear (since you play other tracks too) I am torn on this as for the past 20 years I was a drummer playing for many bands ranging from polka bands to classic rock...to whatever and made minimal money, enough to pay gas get a meal and $20 leftover for some new sticks. Now I charge a minimum of $300.00 and more for karaoke due to the increased maintenence and dealing with drunks who insist on singing every tune that comes out of the PA and then bitch at me when there are no words. From a DJ perspective it's pretty easy to say a request sucks or you don't have it, but on the karaoke side once they sing ONE song they think then they can sit there and sing another 20, which of course doesn't fly and I have to send them packing and they always get pissed especially if they are in a drunken stupor. On another note some of the greatest times I've had were at karaoke, but one thing is consistent. About 95 % of the systems are crap gear and a crap system with crap speakers and crap mics and more often than not you can't hear yourself worth a crap through the mains anyway. So even if you do have the voice it's a bear to match the keys on stage. My solution for this (provided they have wireless) is move out front and sing. Oh and another thing seen this many times the KJ (dj) get's up and sings and everything SOUNDS GREAT, then when a joe blow goes up they turn the mic and the tracks down so everyone else sucks. That's a big pet peeve of mine. In the end this is why I built my business to correct for all the crap systems out there and the crap KJ's, hoping to make it a better world. Does it sadden me this has replaced a majority of live music? In a way yes, however it's still along the line to fill my need for music. I don't miss driving to rehersals and dealing with 130 db geetar amps in ears making them bleed. I don't miss replacing drum heads and tuning my drums all the time and replacing cracked cymbals and dealing with musicians who don't practice before rehershal. Is it a live performance? You bet. Have to sing to the key of the track whether it's computer generated or generated from a guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Anyway, it's way fun. If anyone is in the Pac NW come out and sing with us. The 3pc band does the grunt of the playing, keys/perc etc are sequenced out of necessity since lyrics are on screen. We've been averaging 2-3 nights a week for 2 years now so the band is tight. 600+ songs. On my way to the gig now... Glad you've found a niche that you are happy with, breauz! Honest question: comparatively speaking, would you say you make as much or more per man than an above average cover band from your area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 So now I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate all this karaoke and DJ activity into my act, or to have it available as an option. I don't have video displays to show lyrics so the karaoke part is incomplete. My karaoke show started out sort of like that. I was playing in a piano bar on Thursday nights and would often let a few of the regulars "take the mic" while I accompanied them on piano. A couple of attractive ladies would join in when they would show up, but told me that they preferred to sing to karaoke tracks. So I got a hardware player (which I'd plug into the TV at the bar) and a few discs. For the first year the show was an informal combination of both. There are no rules. You can structure the night anyway you want. But be prepared for karaoke to take over. It's a tough pill to swallow when the night takes off and you realize that they are not coming in to hear you. They are coming in to hear themselves. Good to hear from you PFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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