Members sharkbait Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 There's as many ways to "be a musician" as there are ways to "be a person", and a lot of musicians take their personal relationship to playing and their identity as a musician (way too) seriously, often without examining it very closely. There's endless reasons why someone might flake or not communicate clearly why they don't want to follow through. People have different takes on reality! The "bait and switch" that Norm talks about exemplifies this, or could. Also, for better or for worse, artists tend to be more sensitive than the average joe. It's a cliche, but it's true in my experience. They'll make mountains out of molehills, and avoid "conflicts" that others don't even see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chevybusa Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by rog951 Rule#1: musicians are flakes. +INFINITY!!!!! Not to mention completley and utterly unable to be confrontational about ANYTHING....believe me, you're not alone, that's happened to me and other musos I knew back when I was gigging and playing in bands more times than I can even count....Seriously man I know it can be frustrating as all hell, but try not to sweat it too much (I know easier said than done) it's just part of "the game"...good luck man, I hope you meet some "real deals" soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by sharkbait There's as many ways to "be a musician" as there are ways to "be a person", and a lot of musicians take their personal relationship to playing and their identity as a musician (way too) seriously, often without examining it very closely. By jove, I think you're right! One of the most astute observations I have read on a musician's forum- and deserving of a thread all itself IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 I've always wondered about that musical identity thing, and why some people carry it off the stage and into other aspects of their life. Maybe's it's all they have. But not everyone that plays wants to be some kind of rock star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundgardener75 Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by ForgetMeNacht This seems to be a too common scenario when it comes to getting band members. I meet a musician either through ads/networking/chance meeting. We hit it off and keep regular contact leading up to the practice. I tell the person up front that if anything should come up and that if he's not interested, just let me know.Two scenes happen. The guy shows up for one practice or doesn't show up at all. I call up and I go either straight to voice mail or the # is disconnected. I email and message the guy and no response, ever.I never hear a single word from the person, ever since.What is the big deal? If you can't be in the band for a sudden reason, that's fine. I just wish for some form of communication. You don't even have to give a reason, just don't leave me hanging.Am I the only person who goes through this BS? Is there some kind of "cold shoulder" virus that spreads among musicians? By any chance, is there a way we can hear your demos? Just curious, will give a pretty constructive criticism if that's alright with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paste Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by JimiRules That happened to a band that I was in a few years ago. We were looking for a singer and we found this guy who was looking to sing in a band. We set up a time to meet, he shows up and everything goes great. He was a talented singer, liked the band, the whole nine yards. We came up with a few songs to work on for the next week, most of them being his choices, and was excited to get the band underway. That was the last we saw of him. He never showed again and didn't return any of our calls. One band I was in had something similar, but it went a little bit further. We were an active band with a pretty full calendar. When our singer put in notice, his replacement came in rarin' to go and within a week of his audition he was sitting in with us for a good part of the set. He did the same the following week at what was supposed to be our previous singer's farewell gig. We had a week off the next week, so we had two weeks to get the new singer fully up to speed. So we scheduled a couple of full band rehearsals and some one on one rehearsals with our secondary singer/rhythm guitar player. He never showed up, called, texted, or emailed. So we ended up having to bring in someone else, our second choice from our singer auditions, and our former singer stuck around for another gig.Month or so later, singer that disappeared left a note at our rehearsal place apologizing for bailing and claimed he couldn't contact us sooner because his house had burned down and he had lost his phone. Originally Posted by beatpoet I've experienced that, those type of people want to be in a band, but don't plan on actually doing anything in the band. Some of these people though, it's like if you've suddenly changed your mind are can't commit or just aren't interested, what the motherf*** is wrong with just getting in touch and saying "sorry, I've changed my mind"? They could send that in a text in about thirty seconds. This. When I moved a few years back, I did the craigslist/local musicians' message board route to find a band. A lot of the responses went nowhere after the initial contact, but four or five of them would set up an audition time, give me songs to learn, etc... and then when I would follow up the day before the audition to confirm, I never heard back. In two cases, when I did follow up, I got a response saying they had filled the gig but had forgotten to contact me. In almost all of the cases, the same bands were posting on craigslist within a few months trying to fill the same slot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TieDyedDevil Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by rog951 Rule#1: musicians are flakes. Some are. Some aren't.Rule #2: people lie.If you get to the point where you've got someone in the room with you and they're telling you they love the music, blah blah blah... try to listen to *how* they're saying it rather than *what* they're saying. IOW, learn to read people better. There are lots of reasons people will tell you one thing then turn around and do another.Rule #3: Craigslist musicians are bigger flakes than musicians you'll find elsewhere.From personal experience, I'd be happy to find a CL musician who exhibited a level of reading comprehension that extended beyond the title of my post. You wouldn't believe some of the people who've come crawling out from under their rocks in response to very specific posts.I've had much better luck finding musicians through personal contact and recommendations from friends. Find people who are playing at your level, attend their shows, and talk to them.Rule #4: Sometimes *you are* the problem.Not in my case, of course... But *you* might have an interpersonal problem that's driving people away from you.A bit of soul-searching once in a while can be helpful. While it's easy to see how others cause problems for you, it can be really difficult to achieve the detachment you need to recognize your own contribution to the problem.If you don't already have a trusted friend who'll call you on your BS, take some time - and it will probably take a long time; there's no quick fix - to cultivate that kind of relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members delaware dave Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by wrongnote85 musicians are a flakey bunch. it's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil Rule #3: Craigslist musicians are bigger flakes than musicians you'll find elsewhere.. I totally agree with this^. CL is near worthless in my book. It's like turning over rocks hoping you'll find a gold nugget. And I don't base that on one recent ad. But we have another scheduled meet tonight with a prospective CL guitar player, he (supposedly) plays percussion in a symphony orchestra, which sounds to me like he's desperate for $$ and thinks that "Boot Scootin' Boogie" might pay better (and yes, I'm trying to withhold judgment). It seems a little odd that a "guitar player wanted for working country band" CL ad in a metro area would only turn up 2 responses. FWIW, the bandleader claims that bandmix is not much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundgardener75 Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by Piano Whore I totally agree with this^. CL is near worthless in my book. It's like turning over rocks hoping you'll find a gold nugget. And I don't base that on one recent ad. But we have another scheduled meet tonight with a prospective CL guitar player, he (supposedly) plays percussion in a symphony orchestra, which sounds to me like he's desperate for $$ and thinks that "Boot Scootin' Boogie" might pay better (and yes, I'm trying to withhold judgment). It seems a little odd that a "guitar player wanted for working country band" CL ad in a metro area would only turn up 2 responses. FWIW, the bandleader claims that bandmix is not much better. I remember BandMix! I never had any replies to the emails I've sent to some bands in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goop Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil Rule #3: Craigslist musicians are bigger flakes than musicians you'll find elsewhere. The last bass player I worked with was someone I found through craigslist. Played with him for almost a year until he moved out of the area. Unfortunately he was the exception rather than the norm.A lot of the guys I contact on craigslist check out my songs on reverbnation or soundcloud and state that they are interested and are working on the tunes, etc. Then when I try to schedule a band practice they disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm going to go with self-examination. Sorry...And what Guido posted- there's nothing worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy umm, I dont think so. The point entirely is the music. If you have a rehearsal for the first time with a new member and it sucks then they are not coming back. If it happens several times then its obviously not working musically. I left out the personal part because the OP claims they got along great until they made music together. So if the music was good, they would have told him they weren't interested instead of just not calling back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman Over the years however, I've accepted to a face to face invite only to discover that the band in the basement isn't anything like the band that was described to me over the phone! The "excellent" guitar player who asked me "what chord are you playing" gave me the ol' deer in the headlights" look when I told him "Am" and then had to help him pick out the individual notes since he didn't know them by note name. The "awesome" drummer who had no clue what I meant when I asked him to play a "shuffle" beat. The band that claimed to be "gig ready" yet couldn't come up with 10 tunes they could play from front to back on demand - or that claimed to be negotiating gigs to play a couple of "B+/A-" venues in the area - with their beat up pair of 1st generation EONs on sticks and 6 channel Behringer self powered mixer. They sound like a typical "established band" with "management", "major label interest" and "gigs waiting". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by beatpoet They sound like a typical "established band" with "management", "major label interest" and "gigs waiting". Everything but the ability to play their instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by SLScott86 So if the music was good, they would have told him they weren't interested instead of just not calling back? That's a more likely outcome IMO. Music that is quality tends to get more respect. But to try that theory out: How many times have you had prospective musicians flake out on YOUR project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by Piano Whore That's a more likely outcome IMO. Music that is quality tends to get more respect. But to try that theory out: How many times have you had prospective musicians flake out on YOUR project? Ha- this project, none. I think, the two guys started it, and they asked three of us to be in the band six years ago, and it's been the same five ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by SLScott86 Ha- this project, none. I think, the two guys started it, and they asked three of us to be in the band six years ago, and it's been the same five ever since. Well, prog does have a barrier to entry that tends to scare off even the deluded clowns. Metal? Not so much. Even the most deluded of craigslist clowns knows better than to mess with prog. Or jazz for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 To increase the commercial appeal of progressive rock it needs to be combined with hi-tech synth-based dance music. Prog-step! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Piano Whore To increase the commercial appeal of progressive rock it needs to be combined with hi-tech synth-based dance music. Prog-step! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'm sure that someone is ready to chime in to say that "Owner of a Lonely Heart" was hi-tech for it's time (AFAIK was one of the first hit songs to make use of sampling) and a big dance floor hit- 30 or so years ago. Prog rock, what have you done for the dance floor LATELY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Piano Whore I'm sure that someone is ready to chime in to say that "Owner of a Lonely Heart" was hi-tech for it's time (AFAIK was one of the first hit songs to make use of sampling) and a big dance floor hit- 30 or so years ago. Prog rock, what have you done for the dance floor LATELY? One of my favorite albums that I never tire of listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by jimiv One of my favorite albums that I never tire of listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 4, 2012 Members Share Posted December 4, 2012 Originally Posted by ForgetMeNacht This seems to be a too common scenario when it comes to getting band members. I meet a musician either through ads/networking/chance meeting. We hit it off and keep regular contact leading up to the practice. I tell the person up front that if anything should come up and that if he's not interested, just let me know.Two scenes happen. The guy shows up for one practice or doesn't show up at all. I call up and I go either straight to voice mail or the # is disconnected. I email and message the guy and no response, ever.I never hear a single word from the person, ever since.What is the big deal? If you can't be in the band for a sudden reason, that's fine. I just wish for some form of communication. You don't even have to give a reason, just don't leave me hanging.Am I the only person who goes through this BS? Is there some kind of "cold shoulder" virus that spreads among musicians? Maybe they don't like your vision, personality, etc. maybe they don't see it as a viable project, or just not a good fit for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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