How is your winter schedule?

[YeahDoIt]

I have 5 gigs scheduled through mid January 2013.

[guitarguy19]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

Nice. It cool to see you guys move through the 'ranks', improving your shows, venues and setlist material. I remember when you first came here and you were a 'wee' band. Now you are growing into a 'mighty oak'. LOL

 

Yeah...definitely due to lots of advice from you all on here. NO more music stand, better look, better gigs, better venues, WAY better songs, etc etc. We really have a good resume of clubs on our roster now. The next step is to get impeccable promo materials and go after more A rooms and the private market. Our resume speaks for itself...now if we can get the promo together to show these rooms what they'll get when they hire us, I think we can take another step forward for sure.

Adding the keyboard has been huge too. Even though we're still only using it for 3 songs a show...it's been a big addition. Working on Safety Dance soon...that'll be a 4th...

[FitchFY]

 

Originally Posted by guitarguy19

Yeah...definitely due to lots of advice from you all on here. NO more music stand, better look, better gigs, better venues, WAY better songs, etc etc.

 

That's a pretty cool endorsement to a bunch of `net nerds! Good for you guys! Sounds like a great end to the year.

[guitarguy19]

 

Originally Posted by FitchFY

That's a pretty cool endorsement to a bunch of `net nerds! Good for you guys! Sounds like a great end to the year.

 

Thank you.

And truly...this forum is more than just a bunch of net nerds. All cheese aside, there is a wealth of knowledge here that we all can benefit from.

[Kramerguy]

 

Originally Posted by mstreck

Our venues tell us that our crowds are still better than most/all of the other bands that they have

 

Same!! I've been disappointed with most of the crowds since fall, but the venues are telling us that we're doing better than most of the other bands... it's baffling me.. I would generally think it's the economy, as I'm STILL hurting from the recession, personally. But after seeing the numbers from black friday weekend, people are clearly spending big bucks again.. just not going out as much.. makes even less sense.

[wades_keys]

Makes perfect sense to me. You've got almost half of the country believing that our country is going down the {censored}hole, and more media fear-mongering than I've ever seen in my damn life.

Meanwhile, stock market is kicking ass and corporations are doing just fine. Most of the folks I hear complaining still have the same job they always have: many have gotten raises and benefits. It's as if "we" feel obligated to take on problems that don't even affect our every day lives. It's bull{censored} fear-mongering propaganda that is killing our spirit and will ultimately ruin this country.

[wheresgrant3]

We've lost two room and gained three more. One room we left over pay and it hurt. We played there semi monthly for 6 1/2 years. New owner/manager which is killing the place. It's a 90 minute drive with a hotel stay and in June (our 1st gig with the new owner) it was a dead night and he asked us to take a cut. We did understanding that it was a terrible night and we wouldn't do it again. In September we returned and it was a decent night. Again he cried poor. We demanded full pay and he paid us, however we contact the agent who books that room and told him to pull us. Too far of a drive for that nonsense. So we've made contact with a new bar 3 blocks down and the bad news... it's $400 less than our previous room. The good news is no agent. So we'll try it out. The other room described closed in November. We played there twice and they had been open a year. I said to myself the last time we were there I'd be surprised if they stayed open past NYE. My prediction was right.

We're still drawing our usual crowds but there seems to be less people in the bars in general. Certainly Friday nights are challenged. We played on Black Friday at a place we pack all summer and the crowd was OK. A nice crowd in front of us but the rest of the bar was sparse (it's huge inside... 2-3K sq feet) I was certainly disappointed. The bouncer said it was their best Friday night in 4 weeks. Two rooms are not working well in the schedule. They keep booking us, they keep paying us, they keep thanking us... but we're averaging 50-75 at best (by my math we need to pull 100+ to make it a profitable night). However beyond that there is no set pattern. We could have a big weekend with two blow out shows side by side in venues just minutes from one another or we could be booked on a Friday with no competition and no Saturday night show and have a lousy turnout. Then again with that lousy turnout, I look at all of the faces in front of us and everyone is someone from out of town who came out to see us which leads to the question: Where are all the regulars?

We're purposely holding back in January... only 4 shows... everyone wanted a little time off and the bars suck after NYE. From then on we're booked an average of 6 shows a month through next September.

[guitarguy19]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

Certainly Friday nights are challenged

 

This has been the same for us too. We now have multiple venues that are booking bands only on Saturdays. More competition for less nights. We haven't lost any of these rooms...but still...it makes lining gigs up difficult with many Fridays off the table.

[mstreck]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

Then again with that lousy turnout, I look at all of the faces in front of us and everyone is someone from out of town who came out to see us which leads to the question: Where are all the regulars?

 

My theory is this - they've lost the drive to go to those places because those places have subjected them to night after night of "blah" - whether it be in the form of acoustic acts/DJs/karaoke/bands/etc. I've talked to a lot of people who have said "Oh, I don't go there anymore. It's no fun." And I'm not talking about a single place in particular. I've heard this from people about almost everywhere we play - and almost everywhere we play has cut back on their entertainment in one form or another. It's a vicious cycle.

[wheresgrant3]

 

Originally Posted by mstreck

My theory is this - they've lost the drive to go to those places because those places have subjected them to night after night of "blah" - whether it be in the form of acoustic acts/DJs/karaoke/bands/etc. I've talked to a lot of people who have said "Oh, I don't go there anymore. It's no fun." And I'm not talking about a single place in particular. I've heard this from people about almost everywhere we play - and almost everywhere we play has cut back on their entertainment in one form or another. It's a vicious cycle.

 

I think it's one part... I also think the economy is finally taking it's toll on the under 30 crowd. Some expected to find jobs right out of college. Nearly everyone I talk to lives at home with their parents. 2-3 years ago it was a boon for us... what mid-20 year old wanted to sit home with their parents on a Sat night. These days they really don't have the money or sadly, much of a future. Some of those people I met 4 years ago at 25 are now 28 & 29 and still don't have professional jobs yet. One girl I know with a freaking Master's degree in Music Ed used to be front and center at every show before we played a single note. These days she has been waitressing at Pizza Hut for three years now. I hasten to say she was pretty cute a few years ago when her future seemed bright and sunny. Now she's 28, no boyfriend 40lbs heavier and rarely goes out after 11pm. I'm not saying this is the prime reason why things have declined in my area. However going out and blowing through $100-200 on a weekend doesn't have the same appeal. And the bars are freaking expensive.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

. One girl I know with a freaking Master's degree in Music Ed used to be front and center at every show before we played a single note. These days she has been waitressing at Pizza Hut for three years now. I hasten to say she was pretty cute a few years ago when her future seemed bright and sunny. Now she's 28, no boyfriend 40lbs heavier and rarely goes out after 11pm.

 

I get what you're saying about the economy and such, but odds are pretty good that regardless of what path this girl's life took, she'd probably not still be hanging out front and center for some band in a bar at age 28.

[mstreck]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

I think it's one part... I also think the economy is finally taking it's toll on the under 30 crowd. Some expected to find jobs right out of college. Nearly everyone I talk to lives at home with their parents. 2-3 years ago it was a boon for us... what mid-20 year old wanted to sit home with their parents on a Sat night. These days they really don't have the money or sadly, much of a future. Some of those people I met 4 years ago at 25 are now 28 & 29 and still don't have professional jobs yet. One girl I know with a freaking Master's degree in Music Ed used to be front and center at every show before we played a single note. These days she has been waitressing at Pizza Hut for three years now. I hasten to say she was pretty cute a few years ago when her future seemed bright and sunny. Now she's 28, no boyfriend 40lbs heavier and rarely goes out after 11pm. I'm not saying this is the prime reason why things have declined in my area. However going out and blowing through $100-200 on a weekend doesn't have the same appeal. And the bars are freaking expensive.

 

But for those people who "aged out", wouldn't someone have "aged in" to take their place?

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by mstreck

But for those people who "aged out", wouldn't someone have "aged in" to take their place?

 

That's just it. While the economy may have contributed to the particular reason this one girl took the "aged out" path she did, she'd likely have aged out of the scene regardless.

The real question is: where are the replacement fans? Are they staying home? Or going out and doing other things? Are they not going out to see bands at all? Or just not the bands that are also aging out of certain scenes as well?

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by mstreck

My theory is this - they've lost the drive to go to those places because those places have subjected them to night after night of "blah" - whether it be in the form of acoustic acts/DJs/karaoke/bands/etc. I've talked to a lot of people who have said "Oh, I don't go there anymore. It's no fun." And I'm not talking about a single place in particular. I've heard this from people about almost everywhere we play - and almost everywhere we play has cut back on their entertainment in one form or another. It's a vicious cycle.

 

there is a place we play at that only has decent night with us and a few other bands and our crowds are dwindling there too.

One problem I know they are having is they hire ANYONE! So most weekends there is a crappy or un established band there playing to what seems like almost a private party of just their friends & fam. yeah I know you have to start somewhere but this place has them week after week. Last time I was there I looked at their schedule board. I recognized 3 bands on the list for the next 2 months... One was us!

Now I'm sure it is a bunch of things but one thing is for sure- MANY people I talk to who come see us a few X per month won't go there. They say It's not fun and they just don't like it.

One group of friends told me its because the kitchen closes at 9pm. They like to come for a late dinner and then stay for the band. At this place that can't happen.

[Potts]

+1

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Makes perfect sense to me. You've got almost half of the country believing that our country is going down the {censored}hole, and more media fear-mongering than I've ever seen in my damn life.

Meanwhile, stock market is kicking ass and corporations are doing just fine. Most of the folks I hear complaining still have the same job they always have: many have gotten raises and benefits. It's as if "we" feel obligated to take on problems that don't even affect our every day lives. It's bull{censored} fear-mongering propaganda that is killing our spirit and will ultimately ruin this country.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

That's just it. While the economy may have contributed to the particular reason this one girl took the "aged out" path she did, she'd likely have aged out of the scene regardless.

The real question is: where are the replacement fans? Are they staying home? Or going out and doing other things? Are they not going out to see bands at all? Or just not the bands that are also aging out of certain scenes as well?

 

When the economy gets tight , people tend to shift to house parties. drinking is cheaper , they can get high, and they are typically not at ground zero for DUI. When couples have start having a family , they tend to gather with friends who are in the same boat and party at home. We have seen our spring breaks down here get smaller and smaller over the last few years. I would guess a lot of kids just go back to the home town and party with their friends from other schools at someones rented house or apt.

[SpaceNorman]

 

Originally Posted by wheresgrant3

I also think the economy is finally taking it's toll on the under 30 crowd. ...going out and blowing through $100-200 on a weekend doesn't have the same appeal. And the bars are freaking expensive.

 

You hit the nail on the head. In this economy - folks have cut back on bar nights in a BIG way. ...and when they do go out, more and more they're congregating at local shot and beer joints. Couple that with DUI risk ... and it's no surprise that bar patronage is down.

[mstreck]

And we just lost another room tonight - a restaurant/bar in a casino - they've cut live entertainment due to constraints by the casino in addition to corporate budget cuts, so we won't be playing the show we had scheduled there on Saturday. Or ever.

[Piano Whore]

My group is in the middle of a 2-week lull, then 3 consecutive weekends + NYE at the same club, then the following Fri at another popular club. But after that who knows.The guitar player may have to bail because of his work schedule, and the club owner is not yet committed to using us as much for '013, anyway.

Couldn't negotiate the usual doubled pay for NYE, which sucks, but we get alot of decently-paid work there during the year so it comes out in the warsh.

[stratotastic]

 

Originally Posted by mstreck

And we just lost another room tonight - a restaurant/bar in a casino - they've cut live entertainment due to constraints by the casino in addition to corporate budget cuts, so we won't be playing the show we had scheduled there on Saturday. Or ever.

 

Sux. We're in a similar boat with rooms closing up or "changing things up" regarding live music. It's affected us directly via cancellations, but also indirectly by squeezing us out of places because bigger bands in the area (feeling the same squeeze) are now slumming it playing more in the rooms a band like ours usually plays in. Really hoping for some kind of turnaround here!

[wheresgrant3]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

I get what you're saying about the economy and such, but odds are pretty good that regardless of what path this girl's life took, she'd probably not still be hanging out front and center for some band in a bar at age 28.

 

Dave... you really don't know the NY/NJ band scene very well. Woman do not have an expiration date when it comes to cover bands... well at least until menopause hits. LOL The rule is woman remain up front and center until they die or get married. LOL...

Seriously... we have women all ages who stand in front and make complete fools of themselves. Most are over 30. There's a different dynamic here in the east. Age is not that much of a barrier. People don't age out of the singles/party scene as much as they 'opt' out. Most couples don't marry until their early to mid 30's. Those that do are usually seperated and divorced by the same time. So the woman on the scene (and there are alot of them) are usually #1- single, unattached with no long term romantic prospects. #2- Mom's who's kids are of baby sitting age (usually 8-15) who leave their tired husbands at home, pile in a mini van, get drunk on red wine and sing along with the band all night. It's why we exist really.

All jokes aside... my point does have some legs. The girl I spoke about has friends that still come out to see us... they are teachers, working professionally, living independently and working for the weekend. The girl working the dinner shift at The Hut is stuck there until 11pm, while her friends are sipping cosmo's at 7pm for 'girls night'. My point is there's a big portion of people in their late 20's who haven't moved forward. It's one thing if you are successfully employed and using the weekends to hold onto youth. It's another feeling altogether if you haven't left 'dorm life' and you're friends are moving forward but you are not. You tend to want to stay home, pull a blanket over your head and watch Lifetime movies surrounded by cats. (I'm not speaking from experience... just pure speculation ).

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

When the economy gets tight , people tend to shift to house parties. drinking is cheaper , they can get high, and they are typically not at ground zero for DUI. When couples have start having a family , they tend to gather with friends who are in the same boat and party at home. We have seen our spring breaks down here get smaller and smaller over the last few years. I would guess a lot of kids just go back to the home town and party with their friends from other schools at someones rented house or apt.

 

When people are continually told that the economy is a mess, they tend to spend less across the board. This has been shown time and time again through studies. It's because we feel an obligation to "help" the situation, and the only way "we" can do this is to spend less.

Individuals are rarely in tune with economic indicators anyway: our perspective is more one of personal finance. So I'm not arguing with you: I'm just pointing out some observable behavior that occurs when people are told that the economy is "bad".

[jeff42]

I will say this. It is harder and harder to get more cash from bar owners. We are lucky since we are cheaper than your average full band (by a little bit) This IMO makes us an option. If my full band was still trying to gig every month I think we would have a hard time making the money we did just 2 years ago. Even then the few places we did play regularly all made cuts in live music, we survived it but in at least two places we did take a small cut.

A band in my area that has played several times a week and has been around for 20 years has scaled back their gigs lately. I look on their schedule and where it used to be 4 or 5 gigs a week its now only 2 and sometimes 3.

[WynnD]

Got 6 gigs this December. Things always seem to slow down in the first quarter of the new year.

[mstreck]

I took a look at 24 different venues that we have played since 2008 to try to figure out why we're now struggling to fill our calendar. Of those 24, we are currently playing four of them year-round and two during the summer season. Four others have closed, six no longer hire bands, four are not our target demographic, three only pay the door, and one is just way too far of a drive for the same amount of money that we can make at home. The fishbowl is definitely shrinking.