Members modulusman Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman I have qualms with the in this instance. Assuming the drummer does what he needs to do in terms of getting set up - and is ready to go at the appointed time - do I really give a {censored} about how many cymbals the drummer brings? In my mind this is the drummer's decision ... period (provided hes' hitting his target setup times). The guy is actually a great drummer. The problem is most of that bands gigs are on really small stages. I always use one of my little combo amps because of the limited space. At the end of the gig when everyone else is loading gear he is still dicking around with his Neal Peart JR. edition drum kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman I have qualms with the in this instance. Assuming the drummer does what he needs to do in terms of getting set up - and is ready to go at the appointed time - do I really give a {censored} about how many cymbals the drummer brings? In my mind this is the drummer's decision ... period (provided hes' hitting his target setup times). The guy is actually a great drummer. The problem is most of that bands gigs are on really small stages. I always use one of my little combo amps because of the limited space. At the end of the gig when everyone else is loading gear he is still dicking around with his Neal Peart JR. edition drum kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Take a photo of the stage from an elevated view when everyone's set up. Find photos/videos of major players who use a scaled down set for smaller clubs. . . or at least show that the large set ups are always used on large stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Take a photo of the stage from an elevated view when everyone's set up. Find photos/videos of major players who use a scaled down set for smaller clubs. . . or at least show that the large set ups are always used on large stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Post this video on his FB page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Post this video on his FB page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 ^ LOL...Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 ^ LOL...Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by dparr Less is more. Just look at the set Ringo played on. Bonzo, too. One band I mixed had a full Peart kit, down to the triple wave flying saucer attack. He sounded likempoo, and had to hit everything during every fill. Another guy I've played with had a full kit plus the percussion table from hell. He is extremely musical, and sensitive to the song's content, never failing to add the appropriate, tasteful atmospheric touch. He can bring all the toys that he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by dparr Less is more. Just look at the set Ringo played on. Bonzo, too. One band I mixed had a full Peart kit, down to the triple wave flying saucer attack. He sounded likempoo, and had to hit everything during every fill. Another guy I've played with had a full kit plus the percussion table from hell. He is extremely musical, and sensitive to the song's content, never failing to add the appropriate, tasteful atmospheric touch. He can bring all the toys that he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Bring the tools to do the job. If the music call for a 4-piece kit and simple fills, he needs to get with the program and scale down. Especially in small venues where the "look at my monster drumset" is just foolish.It's about being a team player and not hogging all the stage space for his ego.Drums are definitely the most unique instruments because no two setups are the same. There are a lot of players who need that security blanket of all their crap, but every good drummer should be able to do a decent gig with just kick, snare, hats and a ride/crash. I'm all about "The big rock show", but if your stage is the corner of "Bob's Wing House", or "McPaddy's Irish Pub", suck it up and scale down the whole show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Bring the tools to do the job. If the music call for a 4-piece kit and simple fills, he needs to get with the program and scale down. Especially in small venues where the "look at my monster drumset" is just foolish.It's about being a team player and not hogging all the stage space for his ego.Drums are definitely the most unique instruments because no two setups are the same. There are a lot of players who need that security blanket of all their crap, but every good drummer should be able to do a decent gig with just kick, snare, hats and a ride/crash. I'm all about "The big rock show", but if your stage is the corner of "Bob's Wing House", or "McPaddy's Irish Pub", suck it up and scale down the whole show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Perhaps you could appeal to the guy's vanity. Our drummer recently downsized his kit to a single rack tom and only a couple cymbals (one ride and one crash)....and it made an enormous difference in terms of his appearance. Before, he was barely visible....little more than a head sticking up behind a big pile of drums and cymbals. Downsizing the kit really opened up a lot of space. Now you can actually see what he looks like, what he's wearing, and the crowd can actually watch him play, instead of just seeing the kit around him. IMO, the increased visibility really improved the overall look of the band, and gave the drummer a more prominent role from an audience perspective. The band now looks like four musicians performing, as opposed to three guys playing in front of a drum kit. It's also worth mentioning that stripping his kit down also improved his playing. With the bigger kit, he has a tendency to get distracted and try to squeeze too much into his fills, which occasionally causes him to lose time. ("Losing the one", as we say.) The stripped-down kit gives him fewer distractions, and his playing has been more solid as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Perhaps you could appeal to the guy's vanity. Our drummer recently downsized his kit to a single rack tom and only a couple cymbals (one ride and one crash)....and it made an enormous difference in terms of his appearance. Before, he was barely visible....little more than a head sticking up behind a big pile of drums and cymbals. Downsizing the kit really opened up a lot of space. Now you can actually see what he looks like, what he's wearing, and the crowd can actually watch him play, instead of just seeing the kit around him. IMO, the increased visibility really improved the overall look of the band, and gave the drummer a more prominent role from an audience perspective. The band now looks like four musicians performing, as opposed to three guys playing in front of a drum kit. It's also worth mentioning that stripping his kit down also improved his playing. With the bigger kit, he has a tendency to get distracted and try to squeeze too much into his fills, which occasionally causes him to lose time. ("Losing the one", as we say.) The stripped-down kit gives him fewer distractions, and his playing has been more solid as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by ckcondon Bring the tools to do the job. This, completely. However, that goes both ways. While I find it unlikely that the OPs gig calls for a rack of numerous cowbells, it's also possible that the music does lend itself to having that gear along. I suggest the OP have a come-to-jebus talk with their drummer and try to approach it from understanding WHY the drummer brings all that gear first, before making judgements about it being necessary, or even self/helpful, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by ckcondon Bring the tools to do the job. This, completely. However, that goes both ways. While I find it unlikely that the OPs gig calls for a rack of numerous cowbells, it's also possible that the music does lend itself to having that gear along. I suggest the OP have a come-to-jebus talk with their drummer and try to approach it from understanding WHY the drummer brings all that gear first, before making judgements about it being necessary, or even self/helpful, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Also....over the years, experience has taught me that in most cases, a drummer's skill level is inversely proportionate to the size of his kit.Whenever I see a band setup that includes a huge drum kit, I automatically think the drummer probably sucks.....and usually, he does.By the same token, when I see a band with a bare-bones kit, I automatically think the drummer is probably a seasoned professional who can groove with just a kick and snare. And more often than not, that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Also....over the years, experience has taught me that in most cases, a drummer's skill level is inversely proportionate to the size of his kit.Whenever I see a band setup that includes a huge drum kit, I automatically think the drummer probably sucks.....and usually, he does.By the same token, when I see a band with a bare-bones kit, I automatically think the drummer is probably a seasoned professional who can groove with just a kick and snare. And more often than not, that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Also....over the years, experience has taught me that in most cases, a drummer's skill level is inversely proportionate to the size of his kit.Whenever I see a band setup that includes a huge drum kit, I automatically think the drummer probably sucks.....and usually, he does.By the same token, when I see a band with a bare-bones kit, I automatically think the drummer is probably a seasoned professional who can groove with just a kick and snare. And more often than not, that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Also....over the years, experience has taught me that in most cases, a drummer's skill level is inversely proportionate to the size of his kit.Whenever I see a band setup that includes a huge drum kit, I automatically think the drummer probably sucks.....and usually, he does.By the same token, when I see a band with a bare-bones kit, I automatically think the drummer is probably a seasoned professional who can groove with just a kick and snare. And more often than not, that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 BTW, we need to see pics of said kit on a small stage!I love walking into a corner bar and seeing a full cage drumset and full Marshall stacks. You know it's gonna be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 BTW, we need to see pics of said kit on a small stage!I love walking into a corner bar and seeing a full cage drumset and full Marshall stacks. You know it's gonna be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larryguitar Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Don't make it about drums, make it about space; apportion the stage into equal sections, and let him set up whatever he likes in his. If he can play a seven-tiered drum kit, more power to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larryguitar Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Don't make it about drums, make it about space; apportion the stage into equal sections, and let him set up whatever he likes in his. If he can play a seven-tiered drum kit, more power to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Piano Whore SpaceNorman, I think you missed this part. You're used to using lots of stuff, would you like having to minimize your rig because the drummer insisted on setting up a jungle gym? I hate cramped stages but they're out there. You're right - I did miss that! Cramped stages are an issue - and everybody has to suck it up to make it fit. A drummer that consumes the bulk of the stage is an issue. My keys rig is pretty sizeable - however, when space is an issue - I can shrink my footprint by taking my rack and stage monitors vertical. When I "go vertical" my rack/monitors end up with a footprint that's not much bigger than my rack itself. I'm also more than willing to turn my keys if it will make for more practical use of stage space. "Going vertical" isn't my favorite setup (I don't get the stereo field that I enjoy so much) - nor is playing in profile to the audience - however, it does allow me to shrink my stage footprint quite a bit. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to make things work. Still, I'm a big supporter of NOT trying to dictate what gear my band mates should/should not use for their rig - and would consider intervening only if it was grossly unreasonable and/or if I felt a bandmate was "hiding behind his rig" to avoid being part of setup/teardown of the band as a whole. If you're a "big rig" sort of guy - it's on you to step up and get there early to get your stuff done - and to learn to setup/teardown quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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