Moderators BATCAT Posted January 7, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by undercool Well. I guess this makes me have to really dig deep down to see what the real issue is with this set up. Actionsquid, you are making a valid point. A foot or two in either direction isn't a make or break issue on size. We did note that he really jammed it in for this gig, which we appreciated. Usually is a little more spread out, but still holds true to Actionsquid's comment. Set up is an issue in that there is tons of crap in the way. Drums, cases, more drums, more cases... And there are times when I, as the center guy, can't get my 2x12 in a good position b/c of the size. BUT... I think the biggest issue is the way it looks versus what we're trying to come across as. This drum kit doesn't say "fun...engaged...rock music dance party band that is all about you having a good time."Does he use it all? Nope. Its just ego padding. 4 cowbells in a rack and not one was struck. Which is sad, because everyone knows you need more cowbell.As for micing it - we've played a few pro sports games and I can see the sound engineer expressing his displeasure with the size of the kit. I usually follow up with "can you mic each speaker in my cabinet, please?" I only mic up the kick and snare. And the electronics. Of course. But then I mute them in FOH. Shh... I am kind of shocked that anyone who didn't need/use all of that stuff would actually want to haul all of that to a gig and set it up. Maybe I'm just lazy but that seems like a lot of work. Four cowbells... and he doesn't use any?If someone was carrying their weight and musically solid then it doesn't seem like a deal breaker, but it seems pretty damn weird. I have never known a drummer who brought pieces of a kit they didn't even use to a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Like 'Squid said ... it doesn't look that big from the photo. Your comment about "drums, cases, more drums, more cases..." does trigger a question though ... does he insist on setting all his cases on stage during setup such that nobody else can work on setting up until he's 100% done and gets his cases of the stage? If that were to be the case - that would thoroughly piss me off. The stage is shared space - and everybody has to be conscious about monopolizing as little of it (outside of the space that is actually theirs) so that everybody can get done what they need to get done. Granted - it's a good size kit, but again, hard to tell from the picture as to just how bad the sprawl is. The stuff that appears to be sticking in your craw - like the cowbells seem to be "vertical" and the stand legs seem to be "woven" in there pretty tight. Will you truly reclaim much stage space if he leaves that home? Is his footprint truly that big of a deal - or it is that you just feel it's overkill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 7, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman Like 'Squid said ... it doesn't look that big from the photo. Your comment about "drums, cases, more drums, more cases..." does trigger a question though ... does he insist on setting all his cases on stage during setup such that nobody else can work on setting up until he's 100% done and gets his cases of the stage? Barring a)a very large stage or b)most severe space constraints offstage, CASES DO NOT BELONG ON STAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 U-Cool, some thoughts...1) The pic doesn't make the footprint seem all that huge, to me. Cluttered, but then who am I to talk? 2) He may have stuff pre-attached to stuff (the technical description), so that it's maybe slightly easier to set up WITH all the stuff instead of mixing and matching for a specific gig.3) We've often altered a planned set list on the fly, so unexpected "need" for a specific cowbell (or whatever) may be in the back of his mind, may be driving the "bring everything" approach.4) It helps to have every piece placed exactly the same, every time, all the time... 'cause sometimes we're not aiming a stick at a specific instrument, we're aiming at where that instrument always lives. That may be guiding his plan...5) If it turns out set-up time (and time spent being in your way, holding up your own progress) is actually the real underlying issue, you might discuss a rack system with him. There are pros and cons. We don't play out much anymore, but I can set up my full kit in about 15-20 minutes, I think, starting from "everything nearby." (Full 270 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 I figure he's using about 3 square feet more than a compact 5-piece kit. So from a real estate POV, this guy is doing fine. He can't be doing a good job of engaging the audience when he's hidden, though.. so that's something to think about. Something to not think about is cases on stage. Get 'em off ASAP and into the van. They should vanish within moments of arrival, with the obvious exception of the stick bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted January 8, 2013 Members Share Posted January 8, 2013 If he has to use a rig that big, I recommend he buys a rack. What type of music do you guys play? It looks like a jazz fusion-style setup, which certainly isn't needed for popular covers. He's actually only got a couple more cymbals than me, but his kit is way more spread out than mine. For scale, I think the rug is 180 x 120 cm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted January 8, 2013 Members Share Posted January 8, 2013 I'm basically right there with all the other drummers... his kit doesn't take up a ton of space, but there's a lot of components, I wouldn't want to have to haul, set up, and break it all down, and why is he bringing it if he doesn't use it?The moral of the story here may be that "each person has their own drives and goals." Maybe he just REALLY wants to use and show off all the toys he's accumulated?I am tempted to call him a weirdo, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted January 8, 2013 Members Share Posted January 8, 2013 Octobans and multiple cowbells for pop/rock? You said he has electronics... Sample all that stuff if he really needs it. A rack would save footprint space by clearing out the tripod stands. Seems very "weekend warrior" to me. A pro know what he needs to do the job. If you are gigging a lot, he would realize that less=more. This appears to be the way he sets it up in his garage and wants to show it all off. If he's not a monster player and doesn't even use all that gear, it's probably time for a band intervention and a discussion about whether he really wants to be part of a team and have some consideration for his bandmates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted January 8, 2013 Members Share Posted January 8, 2013 Originally Posted by undercool I was just thinking, who took the picture? If it was you, I hope Timmy didn't see you do it, otherwise he'll be thinking that you love his kit almost as much as he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted January 8, 2013 Members Share Posted January 8, 2013 Originally Posted by ckcondon it's probably time for a band intervention and a discussion about whether he really wants to be part of a team and have some consideration for his bandmates. IMO a band discussion and "the member of the team talk" is a little overkill. Let the him set his the {censored} up that he worked hard to purchase. Is it really cramping everyone that much? I'd be more concerned with the drummer from the other thread that wears Hawaiian shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted January 9, 2013 Members Share Posted January 9, 2013 Biggest issue you can immediately solve is not backing him into a corner; he's still going to need space on one side of the kit or the other to get behind the drums. Theres absolutely zero reason for him to need to face totally front of stage...Cheat the angle of the kit one way or another so he's got his back more parallel to one of the walls, you will be amazed at how much space seems to open up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted January 9, 2013 Members Share Posted January 9, 2013 Originally Posted by Potts IMO a band discussion and "the member of the team talk" is a little overkill. Let the him set his the {censored} up that he worked hard to purchase. Is it really cramping everyone that much? I'd be more concerned with the drummer from the other thread that wears Hawaiian shirts. Maybe overkill, but it's definitely the kind of thing that will build resentment over time and we all know how that ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HDBiker Posted January 21, 2013 Members Share Posted January 21, 2013 As a drummer I really dislike being stuck in a corner like that. Sometimes there isn't much to do but it does create wasted space. In my last band we played several gigs at a small bar where the "stage" area was rectangular with a half wall separating it from the rest of the bar along the long side. The bar manager wanted the open end of the rectangle free for dancers (which were rare) so we could not spread out along the long wall.The short side was glass to the outside with a bench seat. Perhaps 10 feet wide by 18 long. Everyone wanted me in the corner at an angle so we could face out at an angle. The place was so small it didn't matter. I got there first and set my rug up square to walls and with enough room on my left to place a Bose L1 Model 1 plus stacked Bose subs against the bench seat...and still squeeze out. It was weird but it left a lot more room. Lead guitarist stood pretty much in front of me. Another Bose L1 was on my right with the bassist next to it. Lead singer/guitarist was more or less in front of bassist. They were mostly angled a bit to the right while I faced straight ahead. I used to drag a fair amount of **bleep** but learned fairly quickly to downsize. I moved to a rack but after dropping two of four toms I don't think it made a lot of difference in setup time and nearly the same footprint. As others have mentioned a 4-piece kit, hats, two crashes and a ride will cover really anything. Unless covering the Outfield's Your Love, in which case a china is needed for the 2741 times it is hit in that 3 min song. Add a splash clamped on a tom arm so it doesn't take up any additional space and gives color, clamp the cowbell to the kick and a jam block & tambourine to the hats for Alice In Chain's No Excuses, and I was all set Oh yeah and a mini timbale on the rack. I'll post a photo if I can find one and figure out how. Went to see the guys just this past Friday and their new drummer plays a small Gretsch kit. The boys have all kinds of room on stage now! It sounded just fine although now that I think about it I did not hear No Excuses! I'm working on a blues trio now and replaced the timbale with a tom and dropped the toys hanging off the hats. Just waiting to see if John is browsing this thread You guys did sound great! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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