Sologig acoustic piano/voice, what do u guys use to get voice loud enough/sound good?

[stevolives]

This one has to be some kind of joke

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/msg/2694230650.html

[stevolives]

Another one to keep me away from, Nady! heard they're not so great.

[pogo97]

Um, how about playing quiet and singing loud?

[EightString]

Another issue, the impedance difference between a high impedance guitar amp input and a low impedance mic or your VoiceLive line out can cause significant signal (and volume) loss.

 

A 50W clean tube amp (if it IS a tube amp) should blow doors, volume wise, but if your mic signal is getting highjacked by the impedance difference, it's not surprising you have to crank the amp to be heard.

 

The reason my little Acoustasonic Junior (40W per side, Solid State) blasts out the vocal volume is that a) the input on channel 2 is a balanced, low impedance input designed for microphones, and b) it contains a full range speaker system with a built in horn to cover the highs for a crisp clean sound appropriate for acoustic instruments and vocals.

 

Last night, I played a packed, NOISY Irish pub with JUST the Acoustasonic Junior, and I had the vocal channel on about 2.5 all night, yet filled the whole pub with my voice.

 

If you feel you really need some clean volume, and it's a one-shot thing, consider renting a decent portable PA for the day.

[stevolives]

Another issue, the impedance difference between a high impedance guitar amp input and a low impedance mic or your VoiceLive line out can cause significant signal (and volume) loss. A 50W clean tube amp (if it IS a tube amp) should blow doors, volume wise, but if your mic signal is getting highjacked by the impedance difference, it's not surprising you have to crank the amp to be heard. The reason my little Acoustasonic Junior (40W per side, Solid State) blasts out the vocal volume is that a) the input on channel 2 is a balanced, low impedance input designed for microphones, and b) it contains a full range speaker system with a built in horn to cover the highs for a crisp clean sound appropriate for acoustic instruments and vocals. Last night, I played a packed, NOISY Irish pub with JUST the Acoustasonic Junior, and I had the vocal channel on about 2.5 all night, yet filled the whole pub with my voice. If you feel you really need some clean volume, and it's a one-shot thing, consider renting a decent portable PA for the day.

Appreciate the data. I have had one of these lying around for a while but didn't really know what it was for. It sounds like what you are referring to in the above text.




audio technica microphone impedance matching transformer

[BlueStrat]

Try to think of it as not being a one shot deal. Think of it as more of an investment in your musical future. Purchase what you are comfortable with but think quality. I have always subscribed to the "buy once, cry once". I use JBL PRX components. Did it cost more? Yes. Does it sound better than all the single acts I have gone to see in the last year? Yes again. When something sound good the folks pick up on it.

 

 

 

This.

 

And even if you can't affords it right away, breaking your PA into component parts helps. For instance, I have a larger PA for the band- 15/horn cabs and subs, rack with two power amps/x-over/FX and 4 monitors. I also have an 8 channel powered mixer I can use with 2 15 on sticks for smaller venues. I have a 4 channel powered mixer I can use for the solo with 2 monitors on sticks. I often use my powered mixers to run monitors when I use the big PA. The point is, whatever you buy, get stuff that is versatile and can be mixed and matched according to the gig requirement, and has the added benefit of a backup system within a system if anything fails-which it will a some point.

[BlueStrat]

 

Please do not buy anything Kustom. Please do not buy anything Behringer.

 

 

Everyone's experience is different, but I use both and am quite happy with the results for solo and small band gigs. Is it the best? No. Is it worth what you pay for it? More than worth it. Most anything you buy under 600 dollars is going to be made with cheap Chinese components. For what I paid for them, if they last two years, they have more than paid for themselves. My Kustom 8 ch. has lasted four years so far, and paid for itself about 5 times. When you're only playing five nights a month, it is hard to justify a 2000-3000 dollar setup. I used to subscribe to the "you get what you pay for" school, but in modern electronics, since components are made all over the world in all of them, it's all pretty much a crap shoot and I don't see any reason for paying 1500 bucks for a system when a 500 dollar one will do the same thing just as well with probably the same reliability. I just played a gig last year with a guy mocking me for my Fender HRD guitar amp with electronic circuitry. A week later, his boutique 2500 dollar Marshall head took a dump right in the middle of a show. Meanwhile, my lowly HRD is entering it's 12th year of use with nothing but some tube changes. A friend of mine is using a Carvin powered mixer from the early 90s he bought in a pawn shop for 100 bucks. He's used it as a main gigging head for the past 8 years. The pont is, any gear is subject to quality issues because it's all using imported component parts. Paying more doesn't mean better. Of course, you're free to spend your money on higher priced items if it makes you feel better. Not me.

 

 

By the way, you don't need to mount the speaker(s) on a stand. if it's a monitor style you can just put it on the floor and point it at your general directon and folks will hear it just fine

 

 

If you're going for the sock over your mouth sound, yes, this would work great! Speakers in boxes tend to be fairly directional , and pointing it anywhere but at the intended audience will make the vocals suffer.

[richardmac]

This may not be a popular opinion, but I heard the $899 Bose system the other day and to me it sounded like the best boom box I've ever heard. It was fairly loud but IMHO it sounded thin, and the low end was boxy. The L1 system sounds a LOT better. It's also a lot more money. Whatever you buy, give it a real good listen and also listen to other PA systems in the same store, including good speakers like QSC's.

[richardmac]

Regarding buying good stuff once - I would like to be in that camp. I usually buy crap, use it a little bit, am disappointed, and then suck it up and buy the good stuff. And spend more money than I should have.

 

Inexpensive gear can sound decent. But if you A/B it against good stuff you'll usually hear the difference between decent and good. I have many times considered buying a Behringer mixer/amp to keep as a backup - I just don't have the money for it. I did buy a Behringer mixer once, a little cheap one. It sounded decent. Next to my 12 ch Yamaha it sounded like ass. But it was cheap and it worked.

 

I'd use the cheap stuff as a backup and I'd definitely buy the extended warranty for it. I would not personally want to gig with a product from a company universally slammed with a bad reputation for bad QA. I'll buy an el cheapo DVD player for my bedroom, because if it fails who cares. But I wouldn't want my mixer failing in front of a crowd. Just my own personal opinion.

 

Oh, and anyone who disrespects the Hot Rod Deluxe is an idiot. I've played through them a few times and they are outstanding amps for the money.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Alternate idea: A Crate Limo TX50DB , set on top of the grand piano (top down) or on a speaker stand...plug a good vocal mic into Channel One (Shure SM58 is excellent), if you need to amplify the grand piano (not likely in the gig you describe), a simple contact p/u on the "harp" is easy enough.




Why spend $900 when you'll sound better for about $400? (I've used both units, so this is not mere speculation, btw! )

[stevolives]

Something kind of interesting I just noticed, there are 2 inputs for each channel, one says low and one says high. I found these specs:

Input Impedance

15K Ohms (High Level)
3K ohms (Low Level)

Will say that it is louder when plug into the low instead of high, duh, I know. However, I still don't think this is the correct application. I envision my crown amp and one of my JBL unpowered mains at this point. I would think that would sound pretty good, certainly better than the guitar amp, also, I have these items. I just don't know how to arrange this in a semi attractive looking way, muchless plug it together. I think I will have to bring the mixer along too?? Ug. Still kind of longing for a powered monitor I could plug the mic into as have been recommended, much cleaner, well and actually better sounding too.. The crate one looks nice too, oh my mic is Shure Beta 58, have been using it a while and really like it.

[BlueStrat]

 

Regarding buying good stuff once - I would like to be in that camp. I usually buy crap, use it a little bit, am disappointed, and then suck it up and buy the good stuff. And spend more money than I should have. Inexpensive gear can sound decent. But if you A/B it against good stuff you'll usually hear the difference between decent and good. I have many times considered buying a Behringer mixer/amp to keep as a backup - I just don't have the money for it. I did buy a Behringer mixer once, a little cheap one. It sounded decent. Next to my 12 ch Yamaha it sounded like ass. But it was cheap and it worked. I'd use the cheap stuff as a backup and I'd definitely buy the extended warranty for it. I would not personally want to gig with a product from a company universally slammed with a bad reputation for bad QA. I'll buy an el cheapo DVD player for my bedroom, because if it fails who cares. But I wouldn't want my mixer failing in front of a crowd. Just my own personal opinion. Oh, and anyone who disrespects the Hot Rod Deluxe is an idiot. I've played through them a few times and they are outstanding amps for the money.

 

 

Well,"sounding good" is subjective, but I have friends who are great players themselves and they tell me if it sounds good or not. So far, so good. As for the Behringer powered mixer, I'm struck by how warm it sounds. And no one has been a bigger Behringer skeptic than I. But I'm giving it a shot based on reviews and articles I've read about them addressing their reliability and noise issues. The proof will be in the pudding, as they say, but like I said in the previous post, I'm seeing and hearing about a lot of fail in higher priced gear too, so I don't see the advantage in buying more expensive gear for a marginally better sound and a similar chance of failure. But that's me, and if it all goes to hell, it's on me.

[modulusman]

Well my mic is actually plugged into my VL4 vocal processor. I use it for compressor, reverb, some delay but none of the harmony stuff. I use the 2 outs, left and right of the VL4, into the 2 inputs of the amp . Doesn't sound too bad but yeah, unless cranked, it won't do it. Based on your comment, I kind of wonder if it will do it at all volumewise with a grand piano, maybe baby grand but still... Wonder if should use balanced/unbalanced 1/4 cables connecting VL4 with amp.

 

 

Plugging into both inputs might be part of your volume problem. This will actually decrease your volume with a lot of musical instrument amplifiers. That being said using a guitar amp for vocals probably sounds like ass.

[richardmac]

Behringer = Bad is part of the group think of musicians. Go mention it in the Live Sound forum - it's like fresh bloody meat for a pool of sharks. I had one semi-bad experience with them but companies don't get a second chance with me, when there's so many options out there.

 

They also bad mouth Mackie over in Live Sound, but I've had good experiences with Mackie. My Mackie rack mount power amp sounds absolutely outstanding (better than my Yamaha EMX.)

 

Bottom line is of course that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Long as you have backup, it doesn't matter. I don't usually bring backup but I do own some. For big gigs, like I'm doing this Saturday, I bring both systems, and I use my old system (Yamaha 12 ch mixer, Mackie rack mount amp, pair of PR 12's) as a monitor system.

 

+1000 on the idea of having a PA of parts that you can scale. That's one reason why I'm not a fan of the self powered speakers... I use a powered mixer and if my speakers went I could toss the PR 12's on the poles and I'd be fine.

[modulusman]

 

Behringer = Bad is part of the group think of musicians. Go mention it in the Live Sound forum - it's like fresh bloody meat for a pool of sharks. I had one semi-bad experience with them but companies don't get a second chance with me, when there's so many options out there. They also bad mouth Mackie over in Live Sound, but I've had good experiences with Mackie. My Mackie rack mount power amp sounds absolutely outstanding (better than my Yamaha EMX.) Bottom line is of course that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Long as you have backup, it doesn't matter. I don't usually bring backup but I do own some. For big gigs, like I'm doing this Saturday, I bring both systems, and I use my old system (Yamaha 12 ch mixer, Mackie rack mount amp, pair of PR 12's) as a monitor system. +1000 on the idea of having a PA of parts that you can scale. That's one reason why I'm not a fan of the self powered speakers... I use a powered mixer and if my speakers went I could toss the PR 12's on the poles and I'd be fine.

 

 

What happens if your powered mixer fails? With powered speakers if one goes down you could limp through the gig with just one. Plus alot of them have a little mixer built right in to the cab.

[stevolives]

Plugging into both inputs might be part of your volume problem. This will actually decrease your volume with a lot of musical instrument amplifiers. That being said using a guitar amp for vocals probably sounds like ass.

 

 

 

I am plugging into 2 inputs, it has 2 channels, interesting, I didn't think that would be the case, alas, it sounds like it may be. Will try it only 1 mono (left) from VL4 instead, also, should I used balanced or unbalanced 1/4? Make any difference at all? Yea, prolly does sound like ass in reality. I need to figure out how to use the crown and 1 speaker route.

[modulusman]

 

I am plugging into 2 inputs, it has 2 channels, interesting, I didn't think that would be the case, alas, it sounds like it may be. Will try it only 1 mono (left) from VL4 instead, also, should I used balanced or unbalanced 1/4? Make any difference at all? Yea, prolly does sound like ass in reality. I need to figure out how to use the crown and 1 speaker route.

 

 

What guitar amp ae you using?

[Pine Apple Slim]

If your vocal mic has the 3 prong low imp connector, use the low to hi z adapter.

unbalanced hi z plug should be fine as that what a git amp is used to seeing.

 

As for which channel to plug into, what are they labeled?

[Pine Apple Slim]

I have one of these. Its plenty loud and very portable. You could set it on the piano.

Vocals sound great thru it. Roland AC 60.

[stevolives]

2 inputs for each channel, one says low and one says high. I found these specs:

 

Input Impedance

 

15K Ohms (High Level)

3K ohms (Low Level)

[EightString]

 

2 inputs for each channel, one says low and one says high. I found these specs: Input Impedance 15K Ohms (High Level) 3K ohms (Low Level)

 

 

 

About 150 ohms to 600 ohms is considered low impedance for balanced microphone inputs.

 

What you probably have is two levels of impedance for instrument inputs, perhaps one better suited for passive electronics, the other better for active electronics.

 

Even 3K ohms isn't low enough of an impedance to be suitable for low-z balanced mic input.