Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Our drummer thought it would be neat to open the set with some big theme then we start playing. I picked "Space Odyssey: 2001" which I recorded through a compressor to tame it as there were some serious subsonics in the intro. I mix from the stage and noticed that the drums had less punch than usual. Took me some time to isolate the problem. I thought the power amp was bad because it kept going into protection, but I soon found that one of my subs was making zero noise. I'd wager that the subsonics in that theme was too much for that EV S181 sub and it arced the coil... I smelled a hint of smoke shortly after the theme and our bass player heard something crackling. Oops... I think I'll re-record the theme through a subsonic filter!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 You're running with no limiters or high pass filters engaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yup, have highpass filters in the FOH EQ but they were out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Here's where paying attention to the details like limiters and HPF's and reasonable power and all that kind of stuff show up. Doesn't that sub use the DL-18B driver and not the EVX? The DL-18 is best powered by no more than 400 watts RMS, better by 300 watts or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 I've been punishing these subs for years, this is the first failure. I use them for club gigs. The Carvin FET1000 that pushed them has a built in HP filter, I'm going to look into setting that up. I may also replay the theme without speakers to see how bad it was clipping. Yeah, it's an EV speaker with no heatsink. It's really tight in there, no room for a decent speaker like an EVM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Originally posted by The Real MC Yup, have highpass filters in the FOH EQ but they were out. Then they weren't engaged,eh? Any reason for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Originally posted by tlbonehead Then they weren't engaged,eh? Any reason for that? They're engaged for break music so we sound fuller when we play. Time to explore the subsonic filters on the Carvin FET1000s. Those are good power amps to push subsonics like that, never went to that extreme before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 you won't hear any substantial difference with or without either the HPF or the limiter unless something is seriously wrong. The DL is essentially the same thing as the EVM, except the DL has a slightly longer VC and higher power handling. The "heatsink" on the EVM is purely decorative trim... does zero for performance. It is not included on the OEM versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Originally posted by agedhorse you won't hear any substantial difference with or without either the HPF or the limiter unless something is seriously wrong.The DL is essentially the same thing as the EVM, except the DL has a slightly longer VC and higher power handling.The "heatsink" on the EVM is purely decorative trim... does zero for performance. It is not included on the OEM versions. They still have the 2 1/2" VC,right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 This is the offending theme. Lame/Fraunhofer doesn't seem to have diminished the subsonics although the dynamics got squashed. You'll hear the subsonics with good headphones, but beware playing through PC subwoofers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Originally posted by agedhorse you won't hear any substantial difference with or without either the HPF or the limiter unless something is seriously wrong. That's why I'm going to test without speakers to see how bad it was clipping. I wasn't near the power amps when it was playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Originally posted by tlbonehead They still have the 2 1/2" VC,right? Yes, but the winding length is longer for increased Xmax for sub applications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 I've heard of people using the EVX180 in the S181 with decent results, the DL18 in that box really shouldn't get more than 300-400 watts each though. I just got a pair last week and put mark's APX drivers in them, I'll try them out later in december and report back although I don't expect great things, it is an S181 after all... p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 5, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yup, always be extra careful dealing with any source that's got organ/synth bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted December 5, 2005 Members Share Posted December 5, 2005 Also Sprach....The London Philharmonic version of that one, contains a 30HZ Organ Peddle Note in the beginning. One of the Lowest Natural Fundamentals in Music. Used to be touted as the one to test your stuff with. The reliable S-181 was never designed for anything that low. It has been years, but somehow I think that the -10db point was 35HZ. I am sure the brochure is still buried in the basement. Thirty Hertz is brutal on anything, let alone the S-181, which was an abortion at the outset. A poorly designed 6th order Bandpass Box with a response curve like a one sided Matterhorn. Too Small for an 18" speaker. Should have been 7 cuft and tuned differently to even be half decent. One of those "Marketing says the double woofer Manifold box is about 7cuft, we need something about 5cuft." Great engineers with a Marketing mandate.....too bad really. Anyway......The EVX-180 is much more robust.....an Eminence 18" Kilobass might prove interesting. Run both on some speaker software, and look at the results. At least the voicecoil in the Kilomax gets a real good chance to vent heat through the "heatsink". Might well prove to be the most robust in your application. I once modelled a 15" Kilomax in a 5 1/2 cuft bandpass. Quite impressive for a 6th order bandpass design. Never needed to since I never blew up the Peavey 1505-8DTs that I originally used in the application, way before the Kilomax was born! All that said....You "have pushed them for years"...maybe it was just their time. You would not have had them that long if you had been careless, but time and usage wears anything out. Possibly a combination of that and the severe fundamental caused your problem. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kennykeys Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Harmonycat At least the voicecoil in the Kilomax gets a real good chance to vent heat through the "heatsink". Might well prove to be the most robust in your application. I (and others) have found the Kilomax NOT to be a very robust driver. Check your modeling for excursion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv Yup, always be extra careful dealing with any source that's got organ/synth bass. Well, I guess they're "broken in" by now, huh? I've played Moog Taurus pedals through these subs with no problem. That low C subsonic pedal note was just worse, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by The Real MC Well, I guess they're "broken in" by now, huh? I've played Moog Taurus pedals through these subs with no problem. That low C subsonic pedal note was just worse, I guess. I'm just baffled as to why your low cut filters were in bypass,especially when playing something that you knew would put them at risk. Were you purposely trying to kill the drivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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