Replacing Behringer Power Amps with Carvin DCM Series

[Smitty-PNS]

About a year ago I was given 2 Behringer EP2500 power amps for some work I did for a local music store.

 

I have no complaints with the EP2500 but would like to replace them with Carvin DCM series. I am thinking either the Carvin DCM 2500 or DCM2570 should do the job very nicely.

 

I feel the EP2500 are a little weak in the power dept. The manual claims 450 Watt into 8 ohms when both channels are driven. It doesn't claim this to be RMS.

 

Anyone know the specs in more detail or from experience?

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by Smitty-PNS I feel the EP2500 are a little weak in the power dept. The manual claims 450 Watt into 8 ohms when both channels are driven. It doesn't claim this to be RMS.

 

It seems that very few pro audio amplifier manufactures quote power output specs in terms of watts RMS. I believe this is because power output specs qualified specifically as watts RMS isn't really applicable to amplifiers.

[soul-x]

Heh, here's the thread from your evil parallel-universe twin:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1099997

 

I think you're gonna take a knock on resale for what appears to be mostly a lateral move. If you're going to upgrade, you're going to have to take a big step up in price to match the increase in performance.

[agedhorse]

Sounds like either a sideways or possibly backwards move to me... if that's possible;)

[abzurd]

My 2 cents short and sweet. Get a QSC RMX2450 and be done with it!

[Dan Magers]

We tested the EP2500 and found that it exceeded its rated output for short periods.

 

It is capable of driving very reactive loads. I could (tried) not break it.

 

I think it may be a bit light for a serious duty cycle. Its no RMX 2450. But it is a decent amp for the money.

 

I think your money would be better spent elswhere.

 

YMMV.

[shredfit]

Originally posted by agedhorse Sounds like either a sideways or possibly backwards move to me... if that's possible;)

 

Yeah, sounds that way to me too.

 

Sort of like having a Wal-mart $89 Samick guitar... and then getting one of the $99 Guitar center Squier guitars to replace it.

 

If it was me I'd just find some used QSC's Crest or Crowns.

 

[BlackBelt]

I know everyone here hates them except me, but I actually LIKE my Carvin power amps. And the soundguys that have run my system always say the same thing..."I've heard nothing but bad things about Carvin power, but those are decent amps..." or something to that effect. Never had one of them say a negative thing about them, AFTER they have used them. Seems like lot's of guys just have second hand knowledge and repeat what they have heard others say. Not that they are the best amps in the world, but for weekend warriors on the regional club circuits, they have held up where I've had 2 Crowns and a Hill Audio amp fail. Go figure...

Yes, we've also got QSC power, but it's not racked up. The Carvins are already in portable racks, and they work, so we just have been using them every weekend for the last few years with no problems whatsoever.

Like I said, I know everyone here hates them, but my Carvin DCM 2000 amps have been solid, reliable performers through some pretty harsh conditions.

If they ever go down for some reason, I'll be right here talking about it and getting my "I told you so's", but that hasn't happened yet.

[abzurd]

I never said I hated them. We have a DCM2000 that gets used every now and again. Never had a problem with it.

 

BUT

 

If you were starting from having "no amp" would you buy a Carvin DCM2500 or QSC RMX2450?

 

The QSC:

 

1 - is 1U smaller

 

2 - has selectable filters at 30 & 50 Hz (versus only 40Hz for the Carvin - smaller DCM models don't have this feature at all)

 

3 - IMO, is built better. The fan cover on the QSC is metal versus plastic on the Carvin.

 

4 - is 5 lbs heavier. Usually this wouldn't be a good thing, but I believe both amps use a similar design with a large, heavy transformer.

[BlackBelt]

Yeah, if I were starting from "no amp", I'd definitely buy QSC.

No questions about it.

[Marko]

If the OP is going to sell those EP2500, let me know, cause I'll add them to mine, with which I'm totally happy (as a small-timer).

 

Starting from "no amps", to two new EPs vs two QSC, - $620. difference, (morals not withstanding). DBX and TCElectronics got what I saved.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by abzurd I believe both amps use a similar design with a large, heavy transformer.

 

I don't know if this is true... I have yet to work on an EP2500 because many owners consider them "disposable" I suppose. It's possible that it is NOT class H and would have higher current draw and poorer thermal performance.

[tlbonehead]

The first series PLX line is pretty inexpensive these days with the arrival of the II series. Hard to beat them.

[soul-x]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse I don't know if this is true... I have yet to work on an EP2500 because many owners consider them "disposable" I suppose. It's possible that it is NOT class H and would have higher current draw and poorer thermal performance.

 

 

It is class H.

 

From what I remember about the photos of the guts of both amps forumite Tomhole posted a while back, I'd say the weight difference is due largely to a chintzier chassis.

[abzurd]

I was comparing the QSC to the Carvin, not the Behringer. I'm not sure though if the Carvin is class H or not. Can't find the info anywhere.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Smitty-PNS About a year ago I was given 2 Behringer EP2500 power amps for some work I did for a local music store. I have no complaints with the EP2500 but would like to replace them with Carvin DCM series. I am thinking either the Carvin DCM 2500 or DCM2570 should do the job very nicely. I feel the EP2500 are a little weak in the power dept. The manual claims 450 Watt into 8 ohms when both channels are driven. It doesn't claim this to be RMS. Anyone know the specs in more detail or from experience?

I assume it states a frequency response and distortion level along with it?

[agedhorse]

The Carvin amps are (I'm almost positive) class AB, which is why thermal issues at 2 ohms are a concern at those power levels.

[Smitty-PNS]

Here is what the manual states for the Behringer ep2500:

 

20Hz - 20kHz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven:

8 ohms per channel 450 W

4 ohms per channel 650 W

 

it also states:

 

1 khz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven:

8 ohms per channel 500 W

4 ohms per channel 750 W

2 ohms per channel 1200 W

 

and in bridged mode

 

1300 W into 8 ohms 20Hz - 20kHz, 0.1% THD

1500 W into 8 ohms 1 kHz, 0.1% THD

2400 W into 4 ohms 1 kHz, 1% THD

===================================================

 

The Carvin 2570 specs are:

 

2400W bridged 8 ohms

 

[Marko]

That's (700watts) a lot of power going into one 8-ohm speaker... what speakers are you running?

[abzurd]

But why are you so hell bent on a Carvin?

[dboomer]

Some things I notice about these published ratings ...

 

The Carvin amp does not state whether this rating is for a single channle or for both channels driven simultaniously.

 

Are either of these units UL listed? If not, there's a very good chance that these ratings are for cold units. When things heat up after a couple of minutes there's no guarantee that they'll produce anything close to these ratings. I've tested non UL amps (brands that are highly touted on this board) that will drop to only about 20% of their cold power .... really! UL guarantees power after four hours of running at continuous 1/8th power (which is pretty normal operation)

[Marko]

 

Originally posted by dboomer Some things I notice about these published ratings ... The Carvin amp does not state whether this rating is for a single channle or for both channels driven simultaniously. Are either of these units UL listed? If not, there's a very good chance that these ratings are for cold units. When things heat up after a couple of minutes there's no guarantee that they'll produce anything close to these ratings. I've tested non UL amps (brands that are highly touted on this board) that will drop to only about 20% of their cold power .... really! UL guarantees power after four hours of running at continuous 1/8th power (which is pretty normal operation)

 

 

WOW... now that's interesting information! Any expounding on this subject would be very educational.

[Smitty-PNS]

Quote:

 

Mark G. Hinge

Member

 

Registered: Apr 2006

Location: Youngstown, Ohio

Posts: 280

 

 

That's (700watts) a lot of power going into one 8-ohm speaker... what speakers are you running?

 

__________________

ANSWER

 

Mark,

 

I am running 4 Carvin TRX153 speakers rated at 600 W (860 W tri-amped). These things get VERY loud and have excellent clarity (as I expected after reading several reviews on them). I was told that BB King uses them in his newest club (Nashville I think).

 

Here is a link to the TRX 153 specs:

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=TRX153&CID=TRX

 

I am also running 4 Carvin PM15 speakers as monitors. These speakers really surprised me with their sound quality. I sold 4 CGM Arena monitors and bought a pair of Carvin PM15s. I liked the Carvin PM15s so much after performing with them I bought a second pair. Only $189 each on the Carvin eBay store. And I compared them side by side with the JBL EON 1500. The Carvin sounded better to me in a blind sound test. (JBL EON 1500 cost $399). So at LESS THAN HALF the price, and almost TWICE the power handling, I kept the Carvin. That's 4 times the price/performance (the way I see it).

 

Here is a link to the PM15 specs:

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=PM15&CID=CLB

 

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Here is a link to my equipment just before I bought the second pair of Carvin PM15s:

 

http://www.surveysaid.com/DC-Room/Room-1.jpg

 

http://www.surveysaid.com/DC-Room/Room-2.jpg

 

Note: you can see the two Behringer ep2500 in the 8 space rack (Boom box on top of it)

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QUOTE:

 

abzurd

Senior Member

 

Registered: Dec 2001

Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 1702

 

 

But why are you so hell bent on a Carvin?

__________________

 

ANSWER - I'm not all that hell bent on Carvin. In fact, I've sent a couple of items back to Carvin that I did not like. One was a guitar amp, and the other was an acoustic guitar.

 

It is nice to have the Carvin 10 day return option if you don't like something.

 

I am very particular about my equipment and research things excessively (according to my wife anyway). I believe Carvin offers good products at a good price.

 

Note my guitar amps, they are TECH 21 NYC combo 60s. One for me and one for my son. These amps are the best I have found for my needs.

 

Here is a link to the TECH 21 NYC amp. Listen to the sound clips (incredibly versatile amp).

 

http://www.tech21nyc.com/tm60.html

 

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[agedhorse]

IMO, 700 (real) watts is a lot of power as well. That's a 3" VC driver with a Kapton bobbin and realistically it's a driver best powered w/ 350 watt max. The 8" mid is good for 100 watts give or take and the HF driver is insignificant. BUT, it's not my gear and therefore not my risk of damage.

[Marko]

Something agedhorse brought up once (regarding one speaker in question on that paraticular thread) and I followed up with a little research:

 

When I compared the advertised power handling of many passive speakers to their own powered versions, they usually powered them pretty conservatively, usually near the RMS rating and not the Program rating. They still advertised the max SPL as high with that power.

 

Good news for me, cause I thought I was under/minimally powering my stuff (500watt Program), at most 350/375 watts per cab, even single18 Subs. Maybe that's even too much!