Members GigMan Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Ok, so I've read on this forum numerous times that cabinets w/12" speakers (like a Yorkville NX55P) usually sound better for vocals (more "clarity"?) than a cabinet with a 15" (like a Peavey SP5) - for FOH mains. And if you have subwoofers you don't need the extra bottom end that a 15" would provide over a 12", right? But I'm a keyboard player - and if I'm putting together the ultimate PA for my sound reproduction needs, do I stick w/the "12in. speaker is best (esp. for vocals)" rule or do I bypass that in favor of the extra fullness of sound that (which I want to reproduce my keys) that a cabinet w/a 15" in it would give - like a Peavey SP5. I guess the question is: if I couple the tops w/capable subwoofers, do I still keep to the "12 in. speaker will sound better" rule, even when it's not JUST vox but also keys that I'm reproducing (not to mention mic'ing gtr., a line out from the bass amp, mic'ing drums, etc...) ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Since nobody's chimed in yet... may I ask some questions? What percentage of what you send through the PA is vocals, and what keys? What is the predominent part of the music? Do 15" woofers with the subs definitely/necessarily do better for keys than the 12" w/subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmike216 Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 12" or 15" really doesn't matter that much. There's mo much more to a speaker design. If it sounds good, it is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workingfire Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Here ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by bigmike216 12" or 15" really doesn't matter that much. There's mo much more to a speaker design. Correct ... you also have to take in to account the rest of the system. What do you want your vocal to sound like? Also it's much easier to remove extra bass from a speaker with EQ than to add it (without reducing the output capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brightscreamer Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Mark: Check your PM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted July 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by Mark G. Hinge Since nobody's chimed in yet... may I ask some questions?What percentage of what you send through the PA is vocals, and what keys? What is the predominent part of the music?Do 15" woofers with the subs definitely/necessarily do better for keys than the 12" w/subs? Well, whatever the style of music is on any given gig (I play rock gigs, bar gigs, private parties, oldies, banquet/dinner dances, weddings, etc...) - I guess I ALWAYS want the vocals to be up front w/everything else underneath it in a full, but balanced mix. I mean, doesn't everyone want that? I play w/a lot of different bands, musicians, situations... so often times I just show up w/my keyboard rig and amp. However, on occasion I do book my own things (private parties, bar gigs, banquets, periodically a dj gig, etc...) - what I currently use for mains is my JBL EON15 G2's. My thoughts were to invest in a pair of Yorkville NX55P's and relegate the EONs to monitor status. The NX55P's have 12" speakers though (the EON15 G2's have 15" woofers) so that is what got me to thinking about the whole issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted July 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by dboomer Correct ... you also have to take in to account the rest of the system. What do you want your vocal to sound like? Um - I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but... I like vocals that are clear, cutting thru the mix above the instruments so that you can hear the singers & even make out the lyrics they are singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted July 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by workingfire Here ya go. Mackie SRM450's sound great, I know - a sound company set me up w/them once on a gig, for a keys stage monitor and also for vocals. Are they yours? But I've read so much about their thermal issues - they overheat, esp. in outdoor situations. I think I'll pass, thanks anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 9, 2006 Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan I guess I ALWAYS want the vocals to be up front w/everything else underneath it in a full, but balanced mix. So why rely on the frequency response of the speaker for that. That task is more the job of the mixer (level and EQ) and mic selection. It's much more common to choose a mic that fits the sound you are looking for and for the speaker to be neutral about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted July 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2006 Originally posted by dboomer So why rely on the frequency response of the speaker for that. That task is more the job of the mixer (level and EQ) and mic selection. It's much more common to choose a mic that fits the sound you are looking for and for the speaker to be neutral about it. Ok, I'll buy that - I guess I just thought I remember seeing on this very forum (several times, in fact) that the general consensus is/was that a cabinet w/a 12" speaker is better suited for vocals. (ie, "better" suited for vox than a cab. w/15" speaker is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workingfire Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan Mackie SRM450's sound great, I know - a sound company set me up w/them once on a gig, for a keys stage monitor and also for vocals. Are they yours? But I've read so much about their thermal issues - they overheat, esp. in outdoor situations. I think I'll pass, thanks anyway... No, those aren't mine. I've used them many, many, many times and that's why I would always reccommend them if the situation presents itself. Thermal issues? None for me, and I've used them inside a concrete and metal building with 200 teenagers jumping up and down with NO A/C, and outside in direct sunlight. Neva a problem...so you can't always believe everything that you read about (even though you SHOULD believe what I just typed, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 GigMan, the 12" vs 15" debate is an interesting one. My take is that the 12" powered speakers go really well with a couple subs, crossed over at ~100hz. But, of course, a well tuned, bi-amped box with a 15" woofer will sound excellent as well, and provide you with the flexibility to add some frequencies below 100 hz if desired. To my ears, the 1x12 sounds just a bit tighter for vocals, thus my purchase of two nx55p along with 2 ls700p - just seems that with the 100hz rolloff on the 55p and the crossover to the subs, I'm placing the frequencies right where I need them and they sound great together. If, however, you are going to wait a while on subs, I might consider the nx75p..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Singin' Dave GigMan,To my ears, the 1x12 sounds just a bit tighter for vocals, That may be very true in your case ... with your speakers and mics. I just don't think you should generalize. As with most things audio ... this is a "system" question/problem. How about if you add that 100Hz filter (if that's what does it) and apply it to other speakers? How about if you switch mics? How about if ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted July 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by dboomer That may be very true in your case ... with your speakers and mics. I just don't think you should generalize. As with most things audio ... this is a "system" question/problem. How about if you add that 100Hz filter (if that's what does it) and apply it to other speakers? How about if you switch mics? How about if ...? Don - I hear you, I believe you. It is a "big picture" scenario - but I still think that I've read previous posts that looked at the big picture and still claimed that w/all things being equal, the general line on it is that 12" speakers are better suited for vocals. You obviously don't agree w/that assessment - and since you are a professional in the field working for a major manufacturer known for making quality PA equipment for many years (Peavey), your take on it does carry some weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 What I had suggested to Yorkville was a double 12'' cabinet in the NX series that would weigh under 50lbs and could be stand mounted. (if they can do the NX35 at 30 lbs, this should be possible) IMO that would be a big seller and would appeal to those looking for a single cabinet stand alone solution that would be easy to carry. Make it super efficient and loaded with top of the line 3 or 4'' voice coil neodymium woofers and available at 8 or 4 ohms and I think you'd have a winner. I've always wondered why there were not more double 12'' cabinets available... Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Another thing that would be cool to have on speakers would be a switch on the back where you could somehow magically change the impedance of the speaker to 8 or 4 OHMs depending on your setup that night. Maybe even a 16OHM position to make it easier on the Pyramid price range amplifiers. Al poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.