Members Shovelhead Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 I have to hand it to Carvin. We're using a small C1644P powered mixer to run our monitors, and feeding the signal to power amps, subs and FOH mains for the house. At an outdoor gig in 100 degree weather and direct sunlight, our monitor amps in the mixer went into thermal protect mode. By using a fan, we got them to come back on, and made it thru the gig. That night, I just wanted to make sure the fan was working at optimum, so I removed the grill and blew the cooling fins out with canned air. One of the nuts from the mounting fan dropped onto the cooling fins and caused a huge spark and snap sound, even tho the unit was unplugged. After plugging it back in, the sound was really distorted from the monitor outs. I called Carvin this morning, and spoke to a tech. Rather than giving me a return authorization for service (which is what I asked for), he gave me a series of tests to perform first. He thinks the capacitor discharge that I heard and the distorted outputs are unrelated, but told me how to confirm whether or not there are problems. He then told me that a local audio pro shop should be able to help me out without having to incur the cost of shipping if it turns out to need service. He offered to fax or email the schematics to the shop so that I could save time and money. This is on a board that is well out of warranty, and Carvin owes me nothing. I know this is a low-end board, and bought it with the expectation that there are definite limitations to it's functionality. Still, I'm really impressed at the level of customer service from Carvin. All of this coming from a guy who has been pretty vocal about Carvin's offerings and their shortcomings in the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Well... That definitely beats the hell out of the support you'll get from the factory on an AMF bike. ...But that really ain't sayin' too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 When I had trouble with a C1644P, the only option they gave me was to ship it to them for a $275 minimum bench fee. Turned out it was a partially unseated circuit board that a friend fixed for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted August 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by GCDEF When I had trouble with a C1644P, the only option they gave me was to ship it to them for a $275 minimum bench fee. Turned out it was a partially unseated circuit board that a friend fixed for free. Yikes! I hope it's a minor issue, and that it can be fixed locally if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted August 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by soul-x Well... That definitely beats the hell out of the support you'll get from the factory on an AMF bike. ...But that really ain't sayin' too much. In the 25 years of ownership with my bike, I've never needed factory support. That's more than I can say for lots of manufacturers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 I sent Carvin an email a bout 4 months ago asking a question about a speaker I bought. I still haven't gotten a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 So what you're saying is that their badly designed product overheated, then you dropped a screw on a heatsink which caused a spark, even though the heatsink should be electrically isolated from power and they provided some free low level call-in tech support. All that gets from me is an.... eh. *Shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 1, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by Shovelhead II called Carvin this morning, and spoke to a tech. Rather than giving me a return authorization for service (which is what I asked for), he gave me a series of tests to perform first. He thinks the capacitor discharge that I heard and the distorted outputs are unrelated, but told me how to confirm whether or not there are problems. He then told me that a local audio pro shop should be able to help me out without having to incur the cost of shipping if it turns out to need service. He offered to fax or email the schematics to the shop so that I could save time and money. "If" it turns out to need service? Is it fixed now? What did you two determine from the series of tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted August 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv "If" it turns out to need service? Is it fixed now? What did you two determine from the series of tests? The tech told me that he thinks the distortion is because I accidentally unplugged the ground from the chassis when I took the unit apart. I can look at that tonight. He said to use a hair-dryer on 2 spots on the circuit board, using low heat. At the same time, I need to test the voltage going to the fan to see if it goes from -12V to -24V. If it does, and the fan is turning at a regular speed, then I'm ok. If it doesn't he'll tell me the component to replace, or I can take it to a shop and he'll let them know what to do. I won't know until I get a chance to mess with it. But if his hunch turns out to be correct that it just went into thermal because it was so hot out and direct sunlight was hitting the board, it'll save me a service charge and shipping. I'll just take the necessary precautions next time, and I'll be aware of the limitations of low-buck gear. The reason why I'm pleased is that he had every opportunity to have me send it back and charge me, but he didn't. I thought they did the right thing. I really never meant to start a debate over Carvin stuff. It is what it is - a low-buck alternative when playing a small room. After all, a 4-buss 16-channel board with 4 built-in amps for 999 bucks? Some corners obviously need to be cut somewhere. But I did think it was good of them to help out with advice, and to not take advantage when they could have. Jeez, tough room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 1, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 I wasn't debating Carvin or even commenting about the service. I just wanted to know what you found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted August 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv I wasn't debating Carvin or even commenting about the service. I just wanted to know what you found. I want to know that too! I'll get a chance to mess with it later tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted August 1, 2006 Members Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by Shovelhead Jeez, tough room... Yeah... WTF... LOL. The poor guy on the "pa question" got it too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by Gregidon So what you're saying is that their badly designed product overheated, then you dropped a screw on a heatsink which caused a spark, even though the heatsink should be electrically isolated from power and they provided some free low level call-in tech support. All that gets from me is an.... eh. *Shrugs* I don't think that's quite right. I'll bet that screw (or nut) landed on the PCB and caused damage due to a now failed component(s). Carvin does generally do a good job at product tech. support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Carvin is, at best, throw away equipment. The cost of fixing something usually out prices what the stuff is worth. You're lucky you got someone who cared at Carvin. They are few and far between, as far as phone service goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 I just tried out my new C1644P at practice last night. The board sits so far down in the case that 6 of the 8 speaker jacks are inaccessible. Wonder how they tested it. It'll be interesting to see how customer service responds. I'll let you know after I talk to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by steve_man Carvin is, at best, throw away equipment. The cost of fixing something usually out prices what the stuff is worth. I wouldn't say that... our shop has repaired some Carvin gear and it's really no different than anything else out there in that price catagory. Some stuff makes sense and some stuff doesn't. It also depends on how good the service tech is. A hack is going to have difficulty fixing pretty much anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 The tech you talked sounded really helpful. Those type of people are an asset to any companys reputation. I wonder if Carvins fan/cooling is just not adequate for their amps because this makes for at least five seperate cases of an overheating problem on an outdoor gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Well, I just got off the phone. Their answer was send the defective mixer back and they'll send me a replacement when they receive the old one. Oh yeah, they're out of stock right now. Guess I'll have to figure something else out for my gigs this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Years back I had some Carvin components that I installed into a few of my monitor boxes, I called a few times with questions and thought that they were very helpful.. A local rehearsal studio uses the APS tops in their rooms, talking to the manager, he seems quite pleased. He did say that the speakers were touchy, but that Carvin was very quick about replacing them if they blew (still under warranty). Could the heat problem be because of the number of amps in that box? or that it was 100 degrees and the gear was sitting in the sun? White towels or a canopy are great if you are going to be outside... Our local pro repair guys (not just the guy at GC) said the same thing, that fixing gear is fixing gear, and that things come off or stop working on a lot of consoles that you wouldn't think of (neve, SSL, they are licensed to do repairs on a number of top brands). If you know what you are doing, anything can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 2, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by GCDEF Well, I just got off the phone. Their answer was send the defective mixer back and they'll send me a replacement when they receive the old one. Oh yeah, they're out of stock right now. Guess I'll have to figure something else out for my gigs this weekend. I thought you were using a different rig with a Mixwiz, and had semi-retired your 1644P. Or is this another forum screwup and not your post? A few people have complained over in the Bass Forum of their posts showing up with someone else's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv I thought you were using a different rig with a Mixwiz, and had semi-retired your 1644P. Or is this another forum screwup and not your post? A few people have complained over in the Bass Forum of their posts showing up with someone else's name. No, it's mine. I liked the C1644P I had before, but went with the A&H when the Carvin started getting flakey. Turns out it was only a loose board that was easily reseated, but by the time I found out, I already had the A&H. I decided to go back to a C1644P because it's smaller (car space is at a premium), less to carry and store (47 year old back), and less stuff to plug in at gigs (I'm the guitar player who just happens to own the PA). We run 2 passive and two powered monitors, so with its 4 monitor mixes and power for 2 mains and 2 monitors, it's an ideal unit for what I want. Still have a bigger power amp when we need it, but for smaller clubs it has enough. Still, I can't believe they'd build something where you can't get to the speaker jacks. When I called, they said they knew sometimes people have trouble with a couple of the 1/4" jacks but I can't even get to the speakons. They say the problem has been fixed, but I have no idea why I would have received an old style one. The only solution they offered me was to buy a new one, then return the old one for a refund when the new one arrives. They're out of stock, so who knows when that will be. They promised they'd check the new one to make sure it doesn't have the same problem. We'll see. Overall, I'm extremely disappointed, and usually I've been happy with their PA gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 2, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by GCDEF No, it's mine. I liked the C1644P I had before, but went with the A&H when the Carvin started getting flakey. Turns out it was only a loose board that was easily reseated, but by the time I found out, I already had the A&H. I decided to go back to a C1644P because it's smaller (car space is at a premium), less to carry and store (47 year old back), and less stuff to plug in at gigs (I'm the guitar player who just happens to own the PA). We run 2 passive and two powered monitors, so with its 4 monitor mixes and power for 2 mains and 2 monitors, it's an ideal unit for what I want. Still have a bigger power amp when we need it, but for smaller clubs it has enough. Still, I can't believe they'd build something where you can't get to the speaker jacks. When I called, they said they knew sometimes people have trouble with a couple of the 1/4" jacks but I can't even get to the speakons. They say the problem has been fixed, but I have no idea why I would have received an old style one. The only solution they offered me was to buy a new one, then return the old one for a refund when the new one arrives. They're out of stock, so who knows when that will be. They promised they'd check the new one to make sure it doesn't have the same problem. We'll see. Overall, I'm extremely disappointed, and usually I've been happy with their PA gear. Ah, gotcha. I'd go up the chain of command and get some satisfaction from them. The "buy and return" is a really lame suggestion on their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shovelhead Posted August 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 I just got off the phone with them too. I tried the tests last night, and couldn't find any loose connections. It looks like it needs service. I'm going to try the headphone outputs tonight to make sure it's the power amps and not the mixing board itself, and then it's off for service. The tech I spoke to today was a different guy, and he said the same thing - any local shop should be able to fix it. He said they use very common parts, and that he'd work with the shop and provide any schematics they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2006 Members Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Ah, gotcha.I'd go up the chain of command and get some satisfaction from them. The "buy and return" is a really lame suggestion on their part. I went up one tier and got the same spiel. I was hoping they'd overnight me a replacement, but if they don't have any in stock, I guess that won't happen. Posted a nasty message on their bulletin board. It'll probably just get locked or deleted, but at least somebody there will know they have an upset customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 2, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by GCDEF I went up one tier and got the same spiel. I was hoping they'd overnight me a replacement, but if they don't have any in stock, I guess that won't happen. Posted a nasty message on their bulletin board. It'll probably just get locked or deleted, but at least somebody there will know they have an upset customer. Unless they gave a reasonable explanation for not being able to just ship you the new unit along with a return call-tag, I'd keep going up that ladder. But I'm like that...a pain in the ass when I feel like I've been jerked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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