Members A*X*7 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 I read the post by Agedhorse on speaker failure that helped a lot!I went to Guitar Center to buy TWO poweramps for my 4 single 18" Subs.2 on each side of the stage for larger gigs...and one on each side for smaller gigs.The Peavy 18's will need a lot of power to move them (rated 1,000 watts each) So I figured the affordable Behringer EP2500 ($349) would do the trick using 600 watts per side stereo and never turn the poweramp level control past "6" to run cooler. and not use it in bridged mono. The GC salesman insisted I should buy a "Crown" or " Mackie" Poweramp?And claimed that the "Behringer was over rated!" In Germany they dont have to use our guidelines for Amp Wattage"....."That Behringer Amp was peak rated and would run average at only 300 Watts???" What???And that I could get a Crown at 300 watts for about the same price???I told him If I had to run the Crown wide open....it would blow the speakers ...Right? I should have more power than I need but not turn it past 6 I talked to a Ex GC salesman recently and he confirmed that the Behringer line dosent have a good mark up for GC (about $15) where as the Crown is like a 20% commission! I know of two local bands that blew their Mackie poweramps from being wide open!Is the Behringer Amps a good choice with their Toshiba/Fairchild Transistors or is that B.S.?Is Crown better or is their something else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 well, I'd suggest starting with the search function. There is a LOT of misinformation out there, GC salesmen are not immune. A brand is just that; all companies make good/usefull (subjective) and bad/usless (also subjective). Behringer happens to make many many many products I feel (subjective again) belong to the latter (include BBE, nady, kustom). Controls are not power brakes on the output but only on the input. This means any amp can put out full power with the attenuators at near off, just crank whatever is plugged into the amp input. FWIW, all my systems have thier amps run full tilt. Also I have 1 EP1500 on monitor duty (next to a QSC RMX1450) both run full tilt... for monitors. It's seen about 10-20 shows and still runs. I can't tell the output difference and having the SAME physical layout makes setting the DIP switches and rackmounting easy. So you've got 2 PV118 subs to power. How about a Yamaha P5000 and use one per channel (500w @ 8) for two subs and dasiy chain when needing more (750w @ 4)? You're at less money for one amp and a QUARTER of the wieght. Similar QSC models would be: PLX2502, PLX1804, RMX2450, PLX2402. Crown XTi2000, XLS602. Peavey 2600 with DDT would be a great choice too. I prefer Yamaha amps for thier price/wieght/output performance, what are you using for mid/high amps? I'd suggest the same make and something in that model range. What is your crossover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wvuviv30 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Which model of Sub? 1000 watts peak? 1000 watts RMS? thats a HUGE difference. for my UCS1 (1000w Program @ 8 ohms) I am running a Bridged QSC Pl236 into them. So I am giving each cab 1850 watts (this amp is rated at 3700 at 1 kHz with 1% THD). In the future, I'll have a PL380 on sub duty (this would be stereo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Correct me if I am wrong, but running an amp "wide open" doesnt really do anything....its just the input gain setting. On some of my amps, I run them "wide open" but I feed them a good level and only leave enough head room to turn of the sound but not blow the amp/speakers. As far as GC recommending Crown, I would call that a plus even though it was for ill intentions. I'm not sure if this is true with all Crowns, but some of the higher end units have quite a bit of headroom over their stated wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wvuviv30 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Correct me if I am wrong, but running an amp "wide open" doesnt really do anything....its just the input gain setting. On some of my amps, I run them "wide open" but I feed them a good level and only leave enough head room to turn of the sound but not blow the amp/speakers. correct about the volume knobs on the front of the amp... or on the back if you have one like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 I know of two local bands that blew their Mackie poweramps from being wide open! Amps do not "blow" from being wide open! As far as how much power for your speakers ... read this ... http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/poweramps/HOW_MUCH_POWER.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wvuviv30 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 I know of two local bands that blew their Mackie poweramps from being wide open! I have a dead Mackie amp its stuck in "protect and hot" mode... something broke and my other Mackie sometime needs a good 3-4" drop to get it to finish the start up. There is a big problem with the M series of Mackie amps. Also do yourself a favor and find your local dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Oh where oh where can our agedhorse be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madt0wn Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 I went to Guitar Center There's your problem right there. Seriously though, an amp isn't like a guitar or cymbals. One in CA is going to do pretty much the exact same thing as one in NY. You don't need to really touch it before buying it. So pick 3 or 4 specific models that you know will do the job then do yourself a favor and shop around. Not just online, visit or call places and ask if you can get a discount. Manufacturers set it so you can only advertise so low, but lots of places sell below that price. Personally, I like Full Compass since I know the guy is going to cut me the best deals. But there's Northern Sound and Light, Pyle Audio, a few places with great prices and even a better reputation. And I second the vote for Yamaha amps. I have a couple that I've been running for a while with no problems and they're rather lightweight. Especially considering the power output. But Crown and QSC make great products too. The EP Behringer amps even seem to work for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary in NJ Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 There is a big problem with the M series of Mackie amps. Two things: 1) ribbon cable failure2) cooling channel/heat sink that gets caked with "stuff" (lint, dust bunnies). I've spent too much money repairing mine. They are now disposable. Next failure I'm a QSC customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Oh where oh where can agedhorse be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members servojohn Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Oh where oh where can agedhorse be? Don recommended a good read at the Peavey web site. First, I doubt seriously the profit margin and mark up on the Crown is a greater percentage than the Behringer. Amp quality depends on a lot more than what brand of output devices are used. Behringer talks a good game, but... The one thing the GC goon did right was recommend an amp from Crown for your subwoofers, but beware, there are differences in any company's line of product.Unalaska said: "There is a LOT of misinformation out there, GC salesmen are not immune." Immune? He's being kind.You might want to find a real pro audio shop to take your business. Buying an amp with adequate power(HEADROOM!) is important. I suspect a couple of things, first, you might have driven the upstream signal too hard, producing a clipped/distorted input into the Behringer amp(s), and given the input setting that you had the them set at, didn't produce full power anyway. Best regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 The EP Behringer amps even seem to work for a while. ROFL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Is the Behringer Amps a good choice with their Toshiba/Fairchild Transistors or is that B.S.? The brand of output transistor (provided they are not counterfit of course) has little to do with the quality or reliability of the power amp. There is the amp's design that comes into play of course. With the real pro based amp manufacturers, they pay closer attention to having adequate output stage capacitty, and a driver circuit that can support this. They also pay close attention to protection circuits, and especially real world speaker load lines (the voltage AND current a speaker draws versus frequency/impedance. The output stage must provide adequate safe operating area otherwise reliability is in jepordy. The QSC RMX 2450, (now discontinued) PLX-2402, PLX-3002, PLX-3402 and the newer PLX-3102, PLX-3402 (series 2) operated in stereo mode with the high pass filters and limiter engaged are all excellent choices and will insure a long life for your speakers. There are other choices as well, Peavey, Crest both make similar products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Oh where oh where can agedhorse be? Recovering from a very long NAMM show. Hind end is still dragging a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Recovering from a very long NAMM show. Hind end is still dragging a bit. Thank you very much...Things are clear now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Things are clear now. What he said or his hind end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 What he said or his hind end? What he said of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 The Behringer amps are crap IMO. One of the cover bands I worked with for a while bought some EV Eliminator double sub cabinets rated at 1k watts continuous. He had to buy 2 of the Behringer 2500's. One for each sub since they're 4ohm cabs if I remember correctly. each amp was run bridged mono in 4 ohms. The amps would clip before we got any good amount of volume out of the sub. I then brought out a QSC PLX 3402. Ran it in parallel with a sub on each channel. The QSC was giving the speakers less power than the Behringer's but the bass was plenty loud. The Behringer amps are a complete waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Good thing I didnt get the Behringer... I am looking into the Crown, QSC, Peavy, and YamahaQSC seems to have the same look and features as the Behringer though?Behringer must have copied QSC?I like the Yamaha but it dosent have the crossover like the QSC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Good thing I didnt get the Behringer...I am looking into the Crown, QSC, Peavy, and YamahaQSC seems to have the same look and features as the Behringer though?Behringer must have copied QSC?I like the Yamaha but it dosent have the crossover like the QSC? I believe the Yamaha P series amps have an adjustable crossover built in.They are good amps but it is hard to beat the extended 6 year warranty on the QSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wvuviv30 Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 So back to the orginal question so we can help you with amp selection: What Peavey subs are you running? What is the 1000 watts? RMS, Program or Peak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gomer Pyle Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 You would be be better off with an old Crown DC 300 than those cheap new amps that last a year or two. I power 2 to 4 SP 118s or double 18 JBL style scoops with an old BGW rated at 360 watts per channel at 4 ohms in small to mid size clubs and bottom end is not an issue. Buy one good amp and it's done. You don't need a 2,000 watt amp to feel the bar move with the kick, Gomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wvuviv30 Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 You don't need a 2,000 watt amp to feel the bar move with the kick, Gomer. I use 3700 watts!!!! well I never get past the -20 lights on subs (pair of UCS1) but I ride the -10 lights on tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tom_s252 Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 QSC seems to have the same look and features as the Behringer though?Behringer must have copied QSC? Behringer were "inspired" by QSC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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