Members A*X*7 Posted August 4, 2008 Members Share Posted August 4, 2008 I stopped playing back in the late '80s and kept my JBL P.A. Cabs in the garage covered with plastic. Now I am starting a new band and we have been practicing with those cabs and are ready to gig but the guys claim the speakers sound "tired". Is there such a thing as "tired speakers"before I go buy new ones? And also they comment on my old Marshall 1/2 stack that the Celestion G-12/75's are old and tired and I should buy new ones? I thought that the old Celestion was made better than the new ones and thats what made that great guitar sound back then?Should I update either or both of these systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 Got to admit there's a lot of great equipment out there, but tired? The magnets weaken with age. Much of my speakers were early 70s. I've been replacing drivers with RCFs. Still running Altec Lansing horns and drivers. Suggestion, if the speakers are in good shape. Consider bi-amping or getting a good speaker/amp management unit like DBX's Driverack PA. (Steep learning curve, but a huge bang for the buck.) The new JBL's have some great sounding horns. You might be able to sell some of that stuff on ebay for more than the cost of new stuff. (There are other old equipment lovers than just me. They might still have some money.) Whatever you do, don't just through money at a perceived problem. Maybe someone else would like to invest several thousand dollars on a brand new PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 The answer is: Yes and no... kind-of. I know that isn't much help... but this topic could get fairly indepth. The simpliest answer is: If it ain't broke, then don't fix it... and if somebody else thinks that what isn't broke needs fixing, then let them fix it and see if their mouth is backed up with substance... then adjust your gameplan accordingly. There's lots of backseat drivers that have a lot of opinions. Stick them in the front seat and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I stopped playing back in the late '80s and kept my JBL P.A. Cabs in the garage covered with plastic. Now I am starting a new band and we have been practicing with those cabs and are ready to gig but the guys claim the speakers sound "tired". Is there such a thing as "tired speakers"before I go buy new ones? And also they comment on my old Marshall 1/2 stack that the Celestion G-12/75's are old and tired and I should buy new ones? I thought that the old Celestion was made better than the new ones and thats what made that great guitar sound back then?Should I update either or both of these systems? I know that many guitarists want to 'break in' their speakers and that they actually prefer the sound of older speakers. As to PA speakers sounding tired, try this. Clean up the cones really nice (dust them really well, make them look as good as you can). Tell your band mates that you got them re-coned and see if they notice the difference. I think that tired speakers are probably not a concern at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 5, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 How do they sound to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 How do they sound to you? Always a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dj.on.e-bay Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I too have some older "Eminence" speakers from the '70s and I have found I can get great results with a quality stereo 31 band EQ!That way you can dial in the frequencies you might be missing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 How do they sound to you? Well to me the more accurate discription would be "muddy overtones" so I think I will try the "DJ" idea of using a 31 band EQ to cut out the mudd in the (PA) But I wonder if old speakers loose frequency response with age?????And I still wonder about the Celestion Guitar speakers ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 Always a good point. I will have to take my Marshall cab in to guitar center to compare sound to current issue cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I will have to take my Marshall cab in to guitar center to compare sound to current issue cabs. Only valid if they are the same design with the same model speakers. Further more some people would say to compare with the same model speakers that have been broken in (basically new but used for a year or two). I personally don't think that is really much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 5, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 The concept of a speaker "breaking in" is rather bogus. The only mechanical parts are the suspension materials, and they will be at or near their normal flexibility within minutes of first use. From that point on they'll perform pretty much the same until the suspension rots or fails from overexcursion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 Breaking in takes less than 1 minute! Unless your speakers have been subjected to some really stressful conditions ( like direct sunlight) I would expect that once you blow the dust off of them they have become "tired" maybe a percent or two. If it were me I'd rotate the woofers 180 degrees in the cabinets and take the HF drivers apart, remove the diaphgrams, super clean out the VC gaps and re-install. Other than that I wouldn't worry assuming you don't see where rats have been chewing the components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 Its a good thing I have no rats, I heard of that happening.So is it a good idea to use an Equilizer to smooth out the sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin T Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 What older JBLs are you using ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A*X*7 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I think the 15" is a E-130 the 10" is a E-110 but I cant read the horn numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I think the 15" is a E-130 the 10" is a E-110 but I cant read the horn numbers I believe an E-130 and E-110 (with possibly a 2402?) is a fairly rare JBL cabinet combination. It seems like the vintage of JBL cabinets that would be loaded with an E-130 15" low frequency driver, JBL usually loaded the E-110's with 18" low frequency drivers in multi-way cabinets. For example: The 4699 (a mid 80's Cabaret cabinet) was loaded with E-155, E-110, and 2425H on 2370 hornflairs... however, that E-155 was an 18" driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2008 Members Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'll bet it's an E-140 with the 110. The 130 is an extended range 15. Speakers in general do not get tired with age provided the cones haven't been exposed to damaging environmental conditions like moisture and lots of direct sunlight. Foam surround models are the exception, the foam deteriorates over a period of about 20-25 years. Your speakers do not have foam surrounds. Now there are some notible exceptions to this rule... if the speakers have been overpowered, driven to their mechanical limits over a period of time, then the suspension components can certainly be damaged. What model cabinet is this? If everything is functioning properly, they should sound very good. Anything factory that used an E-110 was good sounding stuff IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 6, 2008 Members Share Posted August 6, 2008 I'll bet it's an E-140 with the 110. The 130 is an extended range 15.What model cabinet is this? If everything is functioning properly, they should sound very good. Anything factory that used an E-110 was good sounding stuff IMO. Trouble is, I don't know of any, nor can I find any JBL cabinet of 20 - 30 years ago in my reference material that used 15's, 10's, and horn... except for some some studio monitors, like the 4343B. But the fact remains that any JBL cabinet which is outfitted with E-130's, or E-140's, and E-110's, and similar quality JBL compression driver and hornflair, and JBL crossover of *that* vintage should deliver clean, fat response 80Hz to 10KHz +++ One thought I've got on "muddy" mids out of such an equipped JBL cabinet is if the compression drivers have oxidized while sitting... you know... that fuzzy white oxidation that those alnico magnets can grow if subjected to reasonable high moisture and/or smog/salt air. If the horns are partially, or completely dysfunctional, that will make the cabinets seem muddy, dull, and tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dj.on.e-bay Posted August 6, 2008 Members Share Posted August 6, 2008 One thought I've got on "muddy" mids out of such an equipped JBL cabinet is if the compression drivers have oxidized while sitting... you know... that fuzzy white oxidation that those alnico magnets can grow if subjected to reasonable high moisture and/or smog/salt air. If the horns are partially, or completely dysfunctional, that will make the cabinets seem muddy, dull, and tired. YesAnd after you clean them up you can use a 31 band Equillizer to dial in the clean sound you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djcgtr Posted August 7, 2008 Members Share Posted August 7, 2008 snip And also they comment on my old Marshall 1/2 stack that the Celestion G-12/75's are old and tired and I should buy new ones? I thought that the old Celestion was made better than the new ones and thats what made that great guitar sound back then? Should I update either or both of these systems? Gee, I am really in trouble. I have an old Marshall 4x12 with the original 25 watt Greenbacks....... I guess I am fooling myself thinking how much I love the sound of that cabinet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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