Sigh. See? grrrrrr.

[dravenzouk]

Part of me just sighs. Part of me says, "See? I told you!". Part of me grits my teeth.

 

The backstory: My metal band dissolved a while back. No bad feelings or drama, it just ended (and I've still got my pop/dance band). While that band was active, I was doing all the sound/PA. We had two guitards, and they were of the classic type. Both ran 4x12 half stacks and I could NEVER get them in line. They insisted on massive volume, and could not understand the concept of leaving a little sonic space. Of course, stage volume was completely out of control, and they always complained of not being able to hear themselves. Of course, the only solution that made sense to them was to turn up. They refused to even try things like tilting the cabs back so that they were actually pointing at their ears and not their knees ("but....my TONE!"). Whenever I tried to get them to even consider things like side firing the amps, or using smaller amps and letting the PA do it's job, or other such things, it was always met with huge resistance. I tried to reason with them, to explain that they needed to let the PA do it's job, that there were countless examples of guys with HUGE tone that were in fact using low-watt single 12" amps miced properly, that lots of players (some of their own heroes) would point there amps toward the wall or even have it offstage - but no way, they HAD to have monster amps blasting at all times. Hell, they even wanted to try each having TWO cabs (on on each side of the stage for both of them). This was often on small stages and in clubs with less than 100 patrons. Did we have feedback problems too? Yep. Anyway, I'm sure many of you can relate.

 

So.

 

The two guitar guys formed another band. A three piece, with one of them playing bass. Tonight was their first gig and I went to check them out. I talked to them before they went on, and was informed that they had a bit of a problem at soundcheck. It seems that there was a nasty power spike in the club and it fried BOTH of the guitar player's amps. (Yes, he was running TWO half stacks, a Marshall and a Mesa). Well, they had to make something work, and all they had available was a tiny little VOX "bedroom" amp that had one tube and one speaker (which I'm pretty sure was a 6", at most an 8"). So they parked that little guy on top of the piece of furniture that had been a 4x12 cab, miced it up, and crossed their fingers.

 

You know where this is going, don't you?

 

Yep. The guitar sounded GREAT. In fact, better than I've ever heard that player before. And everyone in club seemed to be plenty happy with it. I asked the player in between sets what he thought, how satisified he was with being able to hear himself from onstage (he had no monitor by the way). He was perfectly fine with it, thought it worked great. All of the sudden they were both seeing how cool it could be to just have that one tiny little amp, how much easier it would be all the way around, how stage volume and feedback were much less of a problem, and how good it could sound.

 

So, how come I spent a couple of years BEGGING these guys to even just TRY something like this with zero success? Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I'm cross posting this for folks over on the Bass forum so that they can "enjoy" this story as well.

[craig_in_tx]

I've always considered myself fortunate to play in a band with a bunch of guys that understand the need for controlling stage volume. We mic everything and I normally place my little Deluxe Reverb on top of it's flight case and have very rarely had to turn the volume past 3 or 4. On smaller stages I'll sometimes place it in front of me tilted back like a monitor. I've never understood why people insist on diming their 100w amps in a small club even when mic'd. It drowns out vocals, makes the soundman's job a living hell, and generally serves no purpose except to flog your own ego.

 

Of course I didn't learn this overnight - I think a lot of it has to do with the maturation process that (hopefully) comes along with age and experience. I can't say precisely when it occurred but somewhere along the way I found the tone that I liked, quit focusing solely on MY tone, MY parts, MY volume and began striving to serve the songs we played as a GROUP. I began to listen more intently to what the rest of the guys were doing. It was amazing to me how many little nuances started showing up. This crazy thing called "dynamics" was discovered for the first time and it was wonderful! I heard a great phrase somewhere that "music happens in that space BETWEEN the notes" and I was finding this out for the first time - all because I happened to turn a knob counter-clockwise.

 

I've begun using in-ear monitors recently but there are times during the night that I'll be singing (I'm the lead vocalist as well) and find out that I don't even need them because I'm able to hear my vocals perfectly through the mains. THAT is a really cool feeling! And it's not as if things are dead on stage either - we have a very lively and energetic stage volume - it's just not overwhelming and we're able to successfully place it in the soundman's hands.

 

Just wanted to let you know that there are some of us out there who get it.

 

And yes, our sound guy loves us.

[RoadRanger]

... It seems that there was a nasty power spike in the club and it fried BOTH of the guitar player's amps. ... So, how come I spent a couple of years BEGGING these guys to even just TRY something like this with zero success?

So, how did you generate the power spike ?

[Scodiddly]

I'll wager 3000 Quatloos that next gig they've got both amps back from the shop, and claim to be vastly relieved that they can get their "tone" again.

[mshifflett]

 

I'll wager 3000 Quatloos that next gig they've got both amps back from the shop, and claim to be vastly relieved that they can get their "tone" again.

 

 

+1 (sad but probably true)

[NUSound]

 

I'll wager 3000 Quatloos that next gig they've got both amps back from the shop, and claim to be vastly relieved that they can get their "tone" again.

 

 

The logic being: "If they loved us *that* much without our amps... just imagine what we can do with them!"

[W. M. Hellinger]

So, how did you generate the power spike ?

My thoughts exactly.

 

If you could package it for sale... I'd suspect you'd have a marketable product, with a pent-up market just itching to get their hands on such a device (and put it to immediate use).

 

Oh, and get to work on ver. 1.1 (the model that's also equipped with some sort of drum spike thing where the drummer will have to send their mondo super drum pile to the shop for repairs and use a much smaller, much older, less resonant, and much quieter kit)... ok?

[Ed Dixon]

Or a 4 hour brain washing pill...

 

Ed

[kevinnem]

 

Or a 4 hour brain washing pill... Ed

 

 

-- you see , now you have me thinking about giving uncooperative musicians roofies .... that's just not good business .... or maybe it is?

 

Anyway, have to run, the voices in my head are telling me to go clean my guns....

[Coaster]

just because the voices in your head arent real doesnt mean they dont have some good ideas.

[RoadRanger]

Anyway, have to run, the voices in my head are telling me to go clean my guns....

That reminds me - when does Guitar-god season open this year?

[Scodiddly]

 

My thoughts exactly. If you could package it for sale... I'd suspect you'd have a marketable product, with a pent-up market just itching to get their hands on such a device (and put it to immediate use). Oh, and get to work on ver. 1.1 (the model that's also equipped with some sort of drum spike thing where the drummer will have to send their mondo super drum pile to the shop for repairs and use a much smaller, much older, less resonant, and much quieter kit)... ok?

 

 

How about pre-blown amp fuses, packaged for each make/model of typical too-loud amp? As a tech I've even run across fuses that look good while not working... slip it in there while he's off cadging a free beer during setup.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Hey! How about a AC cable/power strip to the amp head specially designed to "free YOUR tone" with magic AC electrons, but it actually causes a dramatic drop in AC power when it senses any db above a preset threshold? Kind of like a compressor for AC power???

 

Johnny

[guitarharv52]

just because the voices in your head arent real doesnt mean they dont have some good ideas.

 

I like it !

[Dogoth]

 

How about pre-blown amp fuses, packaged for each make/model of typical too-loud amp? As a tech I've even run across fuses that look good while not working... slip it in there while he's off cadging a free beer during setup.

 

 

Perfect idea! Then you hapen to have a box of new fuses (made to the same spec) to see if "that" fixes it.

[Bugzie]

Before I agree to do a bands sound I ask them if they would come to my place to practice. I let them know that I have a "complete setup and all they need is their instruments. I have a Tama 5 piece set in the room (24x32) so the drummers love it. I have 4 QSC HPR 122's set up as monitors and a couple of 35 watt amps that the guitarist and bass player can use, Both are miked. Now the room is a tad "lively", but nothing that can't be kept in check. I keep their volume in control and it amazes me how many times they say that the sound was great. Then I do their live show and they bring their stacks and after the first set ask why it doesn't sound as good. You should see the light bulbs above their heads when I say its cause their backline is way to loud. Amazingly most of the time they do actually turn down.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Before I agree to do a bands sound I ask them if they would come to my place to practice. I let them know that I have a "complete setup and all they need is their instruments.

 

 

I've done the same. Invariably the drummers show up with sticks. The guitarists invariably show up with two guitars, their pedalboard, and their amp. Never fails.