Members Airguitargb Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Hi All I am looking for some advice on how to make a bigger sound from a 3 piece band. My 4 piece rock covers band (Drums, Bass, Rhythm and Lead) have been successfully playing decent gigs at pubs and clubs for a couple of years but it looks like we are going to loose are bass player. Rather than bring someone new in we would like to get our rhytm guitarist to switch to bass and become a 3 piece. There are are some songs in our repattoire than we will have to drop as they will not suit 1 guitar and we will need to bring in some new tunes. What I am looking for advice on is methods of making the bass and guitar sound bigger and wider. The bass player is looking at spliting his signal to drive one clean bass amp and then another distorted amp to try and make up for the loss of rhythm guitar. I would be very interested to listen to ideas and reccomendations and if any one else has gone through a similar transistion. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevie j Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Keep your same tones etc. All you need is to be damn good. Listen to any great 3 piece from Hendrix to Stereophonics. They're all just really good players with no messing about with splitting signals here and there and adding distortion etc. You dynamics have to come through in your playing to keep you exciting, otherwise you're just loud mush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 I play in a three piece classic rock band.A club owner a few weeks back wondered how he can have bands with more people that don't sound as "big" as we do not loud but big.Do you use subs?A lot of bands around here just show up with a couple of mains and sound OK.I used to do that too. Use subs !! Learn things in this forum about PA's and how to use and set them. Pick songs that you like and are in your realm. Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Airguitargb Posted May 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Thanks, yes we do use subs, very large ones at that Peavey UL215s. Thanks for advice guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gomer Pyle Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Keeping the guitar stage volume low and miking it through the PA will increase the soundstage by a lot. For the bass try cutting some of the mids and highs on the board. So much of that comes from the bass amp whether you like it or not. Boost the lows just a hair on the board as the bass amp wont play the lows as well. This gives a nice rich full sound and adds another dimension, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Three piece, or it's close cousin the three piece plus front, is probably the most common club configuration. Thousands of bands are pulling it off successfully. You will too. Don't muck up the low end with fuzz bass. This is especially important in your case. If you give your rhythm guitarist that crutch, he'll never learn how play bass correctly and be the foundation for the band. With fewer players comes the responsibility to play cleanly and precisely. Your parts are now more open to inspection. It's probably going to make you all better musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 I use two amps for depth/layering, and a little stereo effect. I also use a hybrid for some stuff so sometimes I have three signals going thru the board on some songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sojourner7 Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Its all about creativity. 3 guys can make a really nice performance by adding color to the music and reading eachother well. It does not require "busy" playing just subtle things between the three of you. A bass lick here, a little drum fill there, interesting rhythm guitar comping ect.. it drives the song you are playing in a way that IMO is much better than a lot of heavy instruments just filling the space. This is a really a great example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmqLUWPE6K4Of course this guy is incredible at guitar, but you'll get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 I am looking for some advice on how to make a bigger sound from a 3 piece band. My 4 piece rock covers band (Drums, Bass, Rhythm and Lead) have been successfully playing decent gigs at pubs and clubs for a couple of years but it looks like we are going to loose are bass player. Rather than bring someone new in we would like to get our rhytm guitarist to switch to bass What I am looking for advice on is methods of making the bass and guitar sound bigger and wider. You're loosing your bass player? So what are you going to do for a PA? Seriously though: First: I'll suggest it's highly possible that switching your rhythm guitarist to bass will be a steeper learning curve than bringing in a new (capable) bass player. I believe to some degree, bass players are born... and if it's not in the player to begin with, it's difficult to pick-up... or at least pick-up quickly, especially since the mind-set is completely different between playing rhythm guitar and bass... especially going from the 4 piece to the 3 piece band. Inna 3 piece rock cover band the bass and drums have got to be ultra tight, while at the same time the bass player is much more-so playing lock-step with the lead picker. The bass inna 3 piece is between a rock and a hard spot of being the keyman when it comes to either putting an edge on the beat, or laying it back to keep it in the pocket. Chances are the lead picker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 We just went through a reorganization. Went from playing guitar and keys and another guitar player to just me on guitar. Also switched bass players and drummers. With more people, you need to leave more space in your playing. With fewer people, you need to create a fuller sound. That means everybody has to stay a little busier. The bass player will need to fill up a lot of holes left by the missing guitar. I sacrifice some fills and lead stuff on guitar and stay with bigger, fatter chords to keep the sound full. The drummer may need to play a little more aggressively too. It's all about filling the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 ... A three legged stool can be preferred over a 4 legged chair in suitable applications... so-long as the stool isn't just a 4 legged chair with one leg hacked off. Another great analogy that I'll store away....I really liked the 5 gallon bucket one yesterday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richy Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 I went from guitar to bass a few years back in the same scenario. It would be weird now to go back, it's something you get used to, you just feel a bit naked for a while and when someone screws up, it really stands out (we should know, believe me!). I wouldn't worry too much about things like trying to make one guitar sound like two. The average audience doesn't normally know the difference, and I personally think that people like our clearer sound, it's easy with two guitars for things to get messy in a little pub or club. In your average boozer, low ceilings, hard floor, no soft furnishings etc, I think that a stripped out, clear sound from a three piece can be a definite advantage. We do have to compensate in some parts however. We have three harmonies on most songs at some point, and when the guitarist solos, I often try to fatten my sound on bass, playing octaves or using a flanger for example, but generally, we get by without too much fuss, and we don't let it limit what we attempt to play. Also, take the positives. A quieter stage means less feedback/trip hazards. You get to keep more of the loot, and I do think that by having nowhere to hide, you improve as a player. I started out trying to invent a new instrument called "lead bass" when I first moved from guitar, so tell the guy moving onto it to chill out, tight is what's needed in a three piece, not number of notes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 It all comes down to arrangements. We pull off some stuff that not many 3 piece bands attempt and they mostly work. Three piece is the best set up out there. A quiet stage and great sounding SR rig will all the difference in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted May 9, 2009 Members Share Posted May 9, 2009 Look to the Police for inspiration. I was always amazed at how much variety they managed. Too many guitar bands make all the songs sound alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted May 10, 2009 Members Share Posted May 10, 2009 If the players are good, have good guitar and bass sounds, and the drums are properly tuned (nice & deep, not too ringy), a three piece band can be a joy to listen to - the fewer things there are taking up space, each thing can use up more space. I love mixing good three piece bands (although last night's nine piece was quite fun as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted May 11, 2009 Members Share Posted May 11, 2009 Look to the Police for inspiration. I was always amazed at how much variety they managed. Too many guitar bands make all the songs sound alike. We played a club in Paris (Club Gibus, I believe) that had some awesome pics of The Stray Cats while they were still punk and less rockabilly. That is the ultimate 3 piece band. The Police were good but a little boring and way too into themselves. The Stray Cats just had fun. The pre-rockabilly Cats were awesome. The OP is from across the pond so they have better access to the early Cats stuff then we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted May 11, 2009 Members Share Posted May 11, 2009 We went from 4-piece with a dedicated lead singer who didn't play an instrument to a 3-piece with me singing and playing bass. It wasn't that big a deal, because we were already essentially a three-piece. I've been playing in one-guitar three-piece bands for so long that it's kind of instinctive how much or how little to play. I tend to be a little busier and do more chordal stuff when I hear the holes getting too large. The place it hurt us most was vocally, because I sang so much harmony and filled that part out so much. At the time our drummer didn't sing and our guitarist had (has) issues with playing and singing (and honestly (he's active here - love you Ned) his voice is very inconsistent). We got a new drummer, and he started singing a lot, which helped. Then he quit. We found another one who sings, but he doesn't sing quite as much as the other guy did. I bought a Digitech VL4 to help out even more. It's been great. Vocals were our biggest challenge, since we were all used to playing enough to fill up as a three-piece. The best part about being a three-piece? Splitting the money three ways. A video of us doing a Devo song: [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Good luck! Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted May 11, 2009 Members Share Posted May 11, 2009 Look to the Police for inspiration. Rush, too. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faileddrummer Posted May 11, 2009 Members Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't know exactly how you "loose" somebody, but it sounds dirty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Airguitargb Posted May 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2009 thanks for all youe efforts guys, plenty of opinions, perhaps too many but all good food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted May 13, 2009 Members Share Posted May 13, 2009 The lead guitarist will have to change a lot. And playing bass in a three piece is not something that just any rhythm guitarist can drop into. I've played in a few three pieces for short times (on bass). The only times it has sounded good is when the lead guitarist has been able to sound consistent throughout the song - that means that a lead break will include a lot of chordal components in it - you can't rely on the bass player to be a rhythm guitarist as well. The bass still has to be busy or not as the song requires. Just because there is only 3 pieces doesn't mean that the bass player has to be all over the place all the time. As to singing while playing that was mentioned. It is more difficult to play complex bass parts while singing than to hold down a basic rhythm. It can be done but expect a lot of chopping and changing of songs to get those that all of you can do and sound right playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Just because there is only 3 pieces doesn't mean that the bass player has to be all over the place all the time. Yup... Quite the opposite IME... the bass player generally has to be extremely focused on one very finite thing. Extremely focused. Hour after hour... playing lead base and laying it down, rock solid, pulling the leads and the drums into the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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