Members RoadRanger Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 Kinda hard to tape down the snake on grass . What do yous guys do to protect your snake/FOHpower and mitigate the trip hazard it creates on outdoor gigs? Talkin' about a 100' 16/4 snake and 16 gauge extension cord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 Kinda hard to tape down the snake on grass . What do yous guys do to protect your snake/FOHpower and mitigate the trip hazard it creates on outdoor gigs? Talkin' about a 100' 16/4 snake and 16 gauge extension cord... We try to run along tent lines or generally out of the way. If that is not feasible we use those heavy rubber backed carpets that many businesses have delivered for their foyer. I've seen many outdoor gigs that use the rubber runner that is made to protect cord runs. I would never run 100' of 16 gauge extension cord to FOH. I've had too many power problems with long runs over the years. Pick up a 12 gauge to play it safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 for a one off quicky event a trench is not realistic so i try to keep the run out of traffic as good as possible. if i cannot, carpet runners work well but may harm grass if left too long. those rubber cord covers cause a bigger trip hazard in my experience over grass but do offer a little protection. i also use a screaming yellow 12/3 power cable for foh run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 I've seen many outdoor gigs that use the rubber runner that is made to protect cord runs.Anybody know the "proper" name for that and/or where to get it? I was also contemplating milling up some 2x4's to the "proper" shape. Also maybe split some 4" pvc pipe into 3 or 4 "arches". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 I was also contemplating milling up some 2x4's to the "proper" shape. That don't work... very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 I dont think 12ga ext cords are all that important for FOH. i've buried my snake a number of times..not fun to clean but effective. the problem is that a 100' snake often forces you to run a fairly direct route as the distance gets eaten up in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted June 1, 2009 Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 yea i have eaten most of my 150' snake to get 90' back a couple times. usually i can get a straight shot off to the side out of traffic but i have had some bad planning bite me a few times more than i would like. once there was a sidewalk right in front of the stage. thousands of people walking by, strollers etc. argh. we fixed this situation the next time around by moving the staging area to another location. another time i had to go across a closed parking lot and someone drove in anyway and drove right over my snake. steam about shot out of my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't think some town park or McMansion lawn is the place to pull out a shovel and have at it . The "runner rug" idea is probably where I'll start although I REALLY don't relish the idea of ANYONE stepping on my snake . That "Yellow Jacket" stuff is great but big $$$ I think? Two 10 foot 4" pvc pipes cut into thirds would give me 60 feet of "tunnel" - I'd probably need to paint it with non-slip paint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 I don't think some town park or McMansion lawn is the place to pull out a shovel and have at it . The "runner rug" idea is probably where I'll start although I REALLY don't relish the idea of ANYONE stepping on my snake . That "Yellow Jacket" stuff is great but big $$$ I think? Two 10 foot 4" pvc pipes cut into thirds would give me 60 feet of "tunnel" - I'd probably need to paint it with non-slip paint... i tried the pvc thing. it really seems like it would work doesnt it? it doesnt work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 I don't think some town park or McMansion lawn is the place to pull out a shovel and have at it . The "runner rug" idea is probably where I'll start although I REALLY don't relish the idea of ANYONE stepping on my snake . That "Yellow Jacket" stuff is great but big $$$ I think? Two 10 foot 4" pvc pipes cut into thirds would give me 60 feet of "tunnel" - I'd probably need to paint it with non-slip paint... a little slit trench cut into the sod works just fine..and comepletely goes away after you pull out the snake. most of the time you only need to sink a small area anyhow. a stage, foot traffic and other things do more damage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 i tried the pvc thing. it really seems like it would work doesnt it? it doesnt work at all.What didn't work about it? I'm guessing it won't work on uneven ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 A bit of a PITA but sod staples work very well. Sod staples are wire U shapes about 8" long by 1.5" wide and used believe it or not to keep sod from moving. You drive them into the ground about every 18 to 24" tapping the last little bit to not harm your cables. They will hold the cables firm to the ground and if there is any grass at all, your cables will just about disappear. To remove, you simply grab the cable on both sides of the staple and lift straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 What didn't work about it? I'm guessing it won't work on uneven ground... it just wont stay on the snake at all. even if you use DWV schedule 40 its still not heavy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 it just wont stay on the snake at all. even if you use DWV schedule 40 its still not heavy enough.I suppose I could fire up the plasma cutter and use steel pipe . 11 lbs per foot divided by 3 would be 37 lbs per 10 foot "arch". But yah, sounds like a bad idea . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 that would work well until you gashed/sliced your snake in half with the first placement error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 That "Yellow Jacket" stuff is great but big $$$ I think? Two 10 foot 4" pvc pipes cut into thirds would give me 60 feet of "tunnel" - I'd probably need to paint it with non-slip paint... Yes, the Yellow Jacket stuff is $$$. Like on the order of maybe $50 - $100 per foot... depending on which model. But... there's a few things to consider: 1) Joints: On uneven ground (or even smooth ground) joints are the problem area... and a bad joint can do a lot more damage a lot faster than just a naked cable and foot traffic. 2) Cable diameter capacity: Many snakes are an inch or more in diameter. A cable protector that lies on the ground and can effectively protect a cable the size of a snake is going to have some height to it; therefore, a gentle slope on both sides of the highest point of the cable protector is needed, or the cable protector could actually increase the trip hazard. Which brings me to my next point: 3) The whole liability thing with trip hazards: There's the ADA (American's with disabilities act)... and I believe a whole host of other L&I and OSHA and, and, and... "though shalt not create a public hazard" regulatory entities. Trust me: You can have an ADA compliant cable protector on smooth concrete floor with 1000w lights illuminating the traffic path across the cable protector, and still some gal in heels will turn her ankle on the cable protector and cry foul (while she's dialing her attorney on her cell phone). You stand a lot better chance of fending off a potential lawsuit if you can point out that your cable protector is registered, certified, and approved to be used as the specified manner to protect the public from your cable trip hazard. Some cut-up 2 x 4's or PVC pipe strung out on a field, in the dark, with some cables intermingled with it is a lawsuit waiting to happen. So what's the alternatives? 1) Well... using the Yellow Jacket stuff could be an alternative. It's big, heavy, expensive, somewhat labor intensive, but... it generally works well. I know folks who do Yellow Jacket as a mainstay of their business, and if there's no Yellow Jacket rental outfits in your area, maybe this is an opportunity? 2) I've found that industrial carpet runners can work well. I've seen some folks use approx. 1 1/2 ft. (18") wide rock crusher conveyor belting... and that seemed to work very well. 3) Short of trenching, I've found that at some grass field venues (parks and fair grounds), sometimes before an event the venue management will water the grass to almost a flood irrigation condition... making the turf very soft (and mushy). Usually the mushiness firms up before the crowd surge hits, but early in the morning, the turf can be very soft. When that's the case, I've found I can string my snake and power cable out, and just walk the length a few times and fairly well press it down into the turf. Getting the snake back up out of it's self-made trench can be difficult if the ground firms up too much or it really get trampled in. 4) Run the snake somewhere out of harms way. I've found it's cheaper and easier, and less stress during the show, if I just bring a lot longer snake and run it off the side of the stage and then out/around the outside of the primary audience area (sizing up the likely traffic flow and picking the low traffic side of the audience to run the snake... setting up my mix over to the side of the audience. Then I set "traffic cones" approx. every 6ft. along the snake run. I've stenciled "electrical caution symbols" on my traffic cones. This seems to work very effectively. A dozen or so traffic cones seems to be plenty. The cones aren't real cheap (approx. $20ea. for good ones) and they do have a life expectancy (approx. 5 years if they're out in the sun a lot), but they are fairly light, easy to use, and stack well in the truck... and crowds generally seem to really pay attention to them... stepping way "over" the cable run. Also, idiots in vehicles seem to notice them and don't drive there. 5) Use really tough snakes for the outdoor Festival applications. The heavy (stiff) blue snake cable Whirlwind has used on some models of their snakes in the past (and might still use) is dirty rotten tough stuff that IME will hold up to foot traffic. 6) Maybe consider using multiple smaller snakes? 7) I believe my employee Cliff has come up with the ultimate solution: He doesn't use a snake... his whole FOH mixing station runs wireless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 I believe my employee Cliff has come up with the ultimate solution: He doesn't use a snake... his whole FOH mixing station runs wireless.I could actually do that with my "new" DDX3216 and a wireless MIDI adapter . I'd miss all the blinky lights though - pretty cool having a 16 channel meter bridge . Actually just picked up a new Behringer "Nano BCN44 Universal Midi controller" for $23.50 to give me four knobs that stay put when bopping though the layers. I need always accessible pan and level knobs for a wireless mic that is going to be used in front of the mains, don't know what I'll use the other two knobs for yet. This little controller can be battery operated so if I could find a battery operated wireless MIDI link for it I wouldn't need a laptop to have some minimal wireless mixing capability . EDIT> maybe like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MidAir.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tsaldana3 Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 7) I believe my employee Cliff has come up with the ultimate solution: He doesn't use a snake... his whole FOH mixing station runs wireless. What would one need to do this? I'm definately interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 What would one need to do this? I'm definately interested. A lot of money and dedication to do it reliably. When things go bad, it's very bad and do you really want to become an IT troubleshooter on your gig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 I remember coming across an off-brand yellow jacket that were like 1/3 the price and I liked the design of a little better. I can't remember what they were called though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 Recommendation: Get some 1" thick plywood or regular hardwood boards, 4-6" wide. Run the boards down a table saw with the blade at a 45-degree angle, and bevel one edge. Get those commercial building rubber rugs. Cut the boards to the same length as the rubber rugs. Place the boards about 1-1/2" apart from each other, with the bevels facing outwards away from the 1-1/2" gap, and centered under the rug. Staple-gun the rug to the boards. Creates a cheap-o version of Yellow Jackets. Try not to get any longer than 6 feet though, they become unwieldy and hard to transport/store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 ...Place the boards about 1-1/2" apart from each other, with the bevels facing outwards away from the 1-1/2" gap, and centered under the rug. Staple-gun the rug to the boards.I actually was thinking of something like this also. Did you actually make some and find that they worked well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted June 2, 2009 Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 As long as the bevels on the "ramping" edges are sloped enough, most anything rolling will just roll up them. However, if you DON'T bevel them, most wheeled objects will pop the boards and fold them up backwards in a very random, chaotic fashion. But a 1-1/2" gap over the cable is still close enough that MOST small caster wheels or people walking will never actually put any stress on the snake inside. Making the boards wider makes it behave more steadily and it won't pop up much at all except for the most awkward wheeled contraptions. But only using a 3" wide board just won't work. Since a sheet of plywood is "relatively" cheap and it's easy to slice up, doing 4-ft pieces 6" wide you'll get 16 boards or 8 total covers. Also, if you have a source, you can get industrial sheets of raw polyurethane 1/4" thick, and that doesn't flex much at all. Nail-gun that stuff to the boards with maybe 4" extra past the boards, you'll love it. But that kind of urethane can get expensive. Experiment with whatever floor mats or rugs you can find. I recommend AGAINST carpeting or that outdoor grade all-weather carpeting, they'll deteriorate and absorb funky smells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks for the details! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Recommendation:Get some 1" thick plywood or regular hardwood boards, 4-6" wide. Run the boards down a table saw with the blade at a 45-degree angle, and bevel one edge. Get those commercial building rubber rugs. Cut the boards to the same length as the rubber rugs. Place the boards about 1-1/2" apart from each other, with the bevels facing outwards away from the 1-1/2" gap, and centered under the rug. Staple-gun the rug to the boards.Creates a cheap-o version of Yellow Jackets. Try not to get any longer than 6 feet though, they become unwieldy and hard to transport/store. 1" ply? Hardwood 1x6? That's pricey stuff. It also ignores Mark's last post, which brings up a very valid point regarding liability. Trip & Fall is big money for lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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