Vocal Compression...?

[Syyle]

To use it or not to use it in a live setting?

 

I run a lot of harmonies/reverb/delay/etc through my vocal FX rig (TC Helicon VoiceLive).

 

Should I utilize the compression on the pedal in any way? Does it gain me any better vocal quality coming through the PA? I am running a gate on the pedal as well, I feel like this is a nice feature so as to keep out a lot of the stage bleed.

 

Any thoughts on vocal dos and don'ts with a pedal of this magnitude? Thanks!

[Syyle]

any thoughts?

[RoadRanger]

If your vocalist(s) has no clue as to mic technique or otherwise sucks it could be useful .

[Syyle]

No. Singing is okay, as is mic technique. This is more of a question as "can compression make an otherwise pretty good sound even better?" or does it just get in the way and cause more issues than it's worth for the sound guy?

[Dogoth]

I'm not a fan of ANY vocal FX in monitors (especialy compression). A truly great singer with awsome technique theoreticly shouldn't need any compression at all, but of course that's only theory. In reality compression can be, and often is, a useful tool to give a show that "polished" sound (taking the last few dynamic rough spots and smoothing them over). That said it's a tool that should be used in moderation and by someone who can hear the results (the FOH guy). Running FX & compression on stage is IMHO usualy a cluster **** for the house mix. You might get lucky & get it right but usualy not. FWIW compression in your monitors is a guaranteed reduction of GBF (gain before feedback). IMHO It's best to hear your actual dynamics and get it as close to right as possible at the source (the singer).

 

Just my .02

[Syyle]

 

I'm not a fan of ANY vocal FX in monitors (especialy compression). A truly great singer with awsome technique theoreticly shouldn't need any compression at all, but of course that's only theory. In reality compression can be, and often is, a useful tool to give a show that "polished" sound (taking the last few dynamic rough spots and smoothing them over). That said it's a tool that should be used in moderation and by someone who can hear the results (the FOH guy). Running FX & compression on stage is IMHO usualy a cluster **** for the house mix. You might get lucky & get it right but usualy not. FWIW compression in your monitors is a guaranteed reduction of GBF (gain before feedback). IMHO It's best to hear your actual dynamics and get it as close to right as possible at the source (the singer). Just my .02

 

 

No, that's just what I needed to hear, thanks Gerbil.

[stunningbabe]

Compression should be used sparingly...just like effects. You dont want to overdo things. Add a 'touch' to your Vocals...and see if that helps smoothen the peaks.

[herbie d]

I use a compressor on my voice all the time, although I'm not sure what you mean by a,"pedal". Is it one of those all in one harmonizer pedal things? I've never used one of those before.

I do use a compressor in the Effects rack. I am a singer, and I scream alot, and don't have the best mic tech. If the compressor is set right, you shouldn't really be able to tell its on. That is, it shouldn't color your voice, but it'll keep you from ripping everyone's head of when you holler into the mic, then keep your softer singing out front. Too much.... it'll squeeze or squish your voice.

Now on my guitar, I've used a compressor pedal before to get a little more sustain, and a little fatter sound. I've used one on a snare and got a little fatter sound. I usually don't use one on my voice for that reason.

Contrary to the other poster... I use one on my monitor as well. I seem to be able to get my monitor a little hotter using it. When I sing low, or quietly it comes through loud and clear, then when I holler, it pulls it down to a reasonable level.

[allexcosta]

There's that old forgotten method too:

 

Step 1 - Sing without compression

Step 2 - Sing with compression

Step 3 - Compare

Step 4 - Choose what sounds better to you

[agedhorse]

Compression is a tool not a crutch.

 

Learn how to use it as a too, and like any tool it can be used well or used poorly. Used poorly is worse then not using it at all.

[abzurd]

I use compression one way or another on pretty much every channel, all the time, at every show and we get nothing from compliments on our sound all the time. As mentioned it's not a crutch. It's often dismissed, but it's a good thing in moderation. A lot of time we use it for limiting, because we run sound from stage. For backing vocals, usually a soft knee at 7:1 compression. Kind of a soft limiting.

 

For me (lead vocals) I use a VoiceLive 2 and just set the compression at automatic and adaptive (de-esser set similarly). Frankly, I don't know what it's doing exactly but it works and works well so I don't worry about it. The VoiceLive 2 is pretty cool when it comes to that. They seem to have some nice "set and forget" algorithms, although I'm not a fan of the gate. It's not very smooth and I seldom use it.

[guitarharv52]

 

I use compression one way or another on pretty much every channel, all the time, at every show and we get nothing from compliments on our sound all the time. As mentioned it's not a crutch. It's often dismissed, but it's a good thing in moderation. A lot of time we use it for limiting, because we run sound from stage. For backing vocals, usually a soft knee at 7:1 compression. Kind of a soft limiting. For me (lead vocals) I use a VoiceLive 2 and just set the compression at automatic and adaptive (de-esser set similarly). Frankly, I don't know what it's doing exactly but it works and works well so I don't worry about it. The VoiceLive 2 is pretty cool when it comes to that. They seem to have some nice "set and forget" algorithms, although I'm not a fan of the gate. It's not very smooth and I seldom use it.

 

 

I figured you would use the fat channel on your new Presonus for compression and effects.

[agedhorse]

If you use much compression, youneed to be sure you have plenty of gain before feedback stability in your system. Every dB of compression used is subtracted from gain before feedback.

[abzurd]

 

If you use much compression, youneed to be sure you have plenty of gain before feedback stability in your system. Every dB of compression used is subtracted from gain before feedback.

 

 

Absolutely!!! This is a big part of why compression is misunderstood and not succesfully used by the average "grip it and rip it" crowd. You can't have 14 open microphones in the corner of a neighborhood watering hole with everything cranked to 11. For the majority of weekend warriors compression just doesn't work because it exposes the fact the setup isn't optimal.

 

We use e-drums, a mix of IEM's and wedges, no true guitar amps on stage. Only 4 open QUALITY microphones that reject feedback well and they have either gates or downward expanders on them.

[agedhorse]

 

We use e-drums, a mix of IEM's and wedges, no true guitar amps on stage. Only 4 open QUALITY microphones that reject feedback well and they have either gates or downward expanders on them.

 

 

This is being set up to succeed. Most set up to fail. Just my observation.

 

I think the Presonus concept may be quite valid, especially if expanded to say 32+ channels. It may be a good balance between full digital and analog for many applications. Time will tell.

[SteinbergerHack]

A bit of compression on the front-of-house mix can help keep harmonies sounding smooth and well-mixed.

 

Compression in the vocal monitors is the worst thing I can possibly think of. As stated above, it will reduce the amount of gain before feedback, and it also screws up what the singer is hearing. The best possible monitors let the singer hear EXACTLY what he/she is doing, so that he/she can control position in the mix, pitch, and relative level with other vocalists. Compression (and reverb, delay, funky EQ, limiting, etc.) just makes it that much harder to hear what you're really doing.