Members MikeScalf Posted August 6, 2009 Members Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hey all, Last night at rehearsal we lost (what we believe to be) the crossover in the monitor. Nothing out the 12 and very, very little out of the horn. Were currently using... Mackie 1604 mizer Peavey 215 EQ Crown 402 amp. two SM12 "Club series" Monitors. Speakon cables We're currently running vocals and bass through them. Our bass player has been using his SansAmp DI into the system and through the monitors so he doesn't have to bring his amp (that he always complained he couldn't hear over the guitars anyway) Question? Could this have been caused by the bass? Are the SM12 monitors made to handle that much bass, or was this just a freak malfunction? I suggested he needed to buy a real amp so we could run vocals only through them, but it's the lead guitar players equipment, so it's really his call. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 6, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Could be the crossover. Could be drivers. Could be both. If you're very careful you can swap parts from the 'good' speaker to see which have failed. Is the EQ a PV215EQ ? If so, are the 80Hz high-pass filters engaged? The SM12V is rated for 125 watts RMS. I'd go no higher than 200-250 watts, and only with limiting (you've got none there) and HPF's to protect the speakers. Running bass guitar into them is fine, as long as you follow these precautions and don't try to get low end out of them...the bassist has to be happy with good mids in this case. The 402 XLS is 300 watts per channel, and has no limiters or HPF. It's entirely possible the bass channel was set really loud, or that channel EQ was boosting lows (which BTW will negate the use of a HPF). It's also entirely possible that the faiure has nothing whatsoever to do with the bass guitar. You'll need to determine the actual failure before any educated guesses can really be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeScalf Posted August 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Thanks for responding. It turns out the speaker is still under the extended warranty, so he will be sending it back. That's all fine, but we want to be careful about not having problems again. While I haven't looked into the specs of the monitors much myself, I'm surprised they are rated that low. I'm going to be doing much more research into our present gear and future purchases. The amp seems to be way more than what would be needed for just two monitors. Could we look at a smaller amp, like the 202, for the monitors and use this amp for Mains? or would the amp still work well if we were running 2 SM12V monitors per side? Can limiters be added somewhere in the signal path? We run the levels on the amp about 50%. Is that good, bad or irrelevant? I make no illusions about my limited knowledge. I have run sound, but when it comes to the technical side of assembling a system, I'm kind of in the dark as far as what will work and what won't. Yes, the EQ is the PV215EQ. I'll check on the high pass filters. Thanks for all your information and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Why is the crossover always the first thing blamed when a cab dies? I find the drivers themselves to be the culprits most of the time, sometimes a fuse if it is the high frequency device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 The level control is irrelevant. I have also found the crossovers to be the least likely component to fail (fuses or lamps excepted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Either way, Yammie will sort out what failed. Yes, you can use two of the SM12's on one channel. That would put about 200w each into them iirc. Should be more than enough for monitors. But keep in mind that you only have one mix available this way. I don't know what you're using for a mixer, but if it's got 2 or more post-fader (monitor) sends, you can have two mixes, which is generally preferable. IMHO an XLS202 would be a good match to these speakers, but I'd look at one of QSC's offerings, either the GX or the RMX series. Both have limiters and the RMX has HPF's that can be set for either 30 or 50Hz. A GX3 or RMX850 would be plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeScalf Posted August 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Thanks for the info. We're using the Mackie 1604, so ultimately we want to have 4 monitor mixes w/ two separate amps. I'll look into QSC amps. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 the symptoms described are exactly the same as what my yamaha sm115iv exhibited when the cap in the LPF for the 15" driver exploded. no sound out the 15", some sound out the horn. it was pretty spectacular in there when i pulled the driver. i put in some same MF value/much higher voltage caps and have had no further issue with these cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Storer Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 My band played a block party Tuesday night. Just before we started sound chedk, the bass player looked down at one of the SM-12 monitors and noticed that the bottom of the horn was darker than it should be. One of bolts had sheared. Of course, we didn't have time to extract the broken bolt, so we duct taped the driver back in place and played our 2 sets. Surprisingly, it worked pretty well. Always bring tape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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