Anybody use outboard mic pre's for live sound?

[agedhorse]

Kind of funny, a mic pre is a great studio tool but the mic is broken and that's not recognized.. What's wrong with this picture?

 

Looks like it doesn't matter one bit if a broken mic requires a fancy preamp to make it work maybe the priority is all wrong?

 

The TLM-103 is PLENTY hot for any console preamp I have ever used or designed.

[Etienne Rambert]

JoeMeek VC-3 Pro-Channel on VX. I won't sing without it.

(But I use it for the compression - not the pre).

[AtomicDog!]

I don't usually use an outboard mic pre, but I do use a Empirical Labs LilFreq eq inserted into the lead vocal channel. Usually I only do this on consoles that have only the two mid sweeps or less rather than parametric eqs. I have also found that I really like a BSS 901II on some vocalists live because it can smooth out the harsh transients very narrowly when the vocalist really pushes hard without squashing the rest of the signal.

 

That being said, I am more and more tempted to try out some of the newer tube mic pres now that I've been using digital consoles a lot more.

[Keyrick]

 

Kind of funny, a mic pre is a great studio tool but the mic is broken and that's not recognized.. What's wrong with this picture? Looks like it doesn't matter one bit if a broken mic requires a fancy preamp to make it work maybe the priority is all wrong? The TLM-103 is PLENTY hot for any console preamp I have ever used or designed.

 

 

Did I not recognize that I need to check my TLM-103?

 

Do all recording consoles have minimal gain on their channels, so that there is a need for a mic pre? Please tell me where my priorities are wrong.

 

My original statement was that a mic pre can be a tool in a live recording enviornment. Do all mics, recording or otherwise, never need any additional gain when used on a live console?

[Coaster]

 

Do all mics, recording or otherwise, never need any additional gain when used on a live console?

 

 

i've never seen this to be the case. IME the pre in any reputable mixer has always had plenty of gain to drive any working mic into solid red.

[agedhorse]

 

Do all recording consoles have minimal gain on their channels, so that there is a need for a mic pre? Please tell me where my priorities are wrong. My original statement was that a mic pre can be a tool in a live recording enviornment. Do all mics, recording or otherwise, never need any additional gain when used on a live console?

 

 

Nope, all recording consoles (within reason of course) have plenty of gain available on their mic pre's. Where they ARE needed is for inputs to ADC's and line level only inputs, but all live consoles I have ever used have plenty of gain for most mics. There are some exceptions with low z ribbons, but nothing at all common.

[Keyrick]

 

Nope, all recording consoles (within reason of course) have plenty of gain available on their mic pre's. Where they ARE needed is for inputs to ADC's and line level only inputs, but all live consoles I have ever used have plenty of gain for most mics. There are some exceptions with low z ribbons, but nothing at all common.

 

 

Exactly!

[Dogoth]

 

Nope, all recording consoles (within reason of course) have plenty of gain available on their mic pre's. Where they ARE needed is for inputs to ADC's and line level only inputs, but all live consoles I have ever used have plenty of gain for most mics. There are some exceptions with low z ribbons, but nothing at all common.

 

 

I was thinking of pointing out ribbons but figured this is Live S&P. Other than the Beyer (is it the M60?), I don't think I've ever used a ribbon live (they're just WAY too fragile.

[monkeyland]

 

Do all recording consoles have minimal gain on their channels, so that there is a need for a mic pre? Please tell me where my priorities are wrong. My original statement was that a mic pre can be a tool in a live recording enviornment.

 

 

in the recording environment outboard preamps are not really used to get more gain so much as they are for their tone. yes some preamps offer more "clean" or quiet gain than others and may be more suitable than others in certain situations, but the main purpose of a mic pre is to get a signal from a mic up to a level that the rest of the components can work with. pretty much all modern mixers can do this. will you like the sound of the preamps on a recording? maybe yes, maybe no. however, more often than not the preamp is not the weakest link in the chain. especially in a live recording situation.

 

here at my desk i have a rack next to me with 21 channels of preamp that i can use for recording although i often use the ones in my mixwiz when i record drums just because they are good enough and it's convenient. i'll use the others for various sources when i see fit. i would not dream of taking any of them out for live sound gigs.

[agedhorse]

So you use a preamp to add distortions to your signal???

 

Curious, if accuracy is desired, and plenty of money is spent buying what are advertised as "the most accurate" mics and preamps yet then you want tone or flavor which is nothing more than a distortion of the original signal.

 

It's an interesting question, one full of hypocracy IMO... and I have designed more than a few mic pre's in my day and heard/seen all the marketing and user hype BS.

[monkeyland]

 

So you use a preamp to add distortions to your signal??? Curious, if accuracy is desired, and plenty of money is spent buying what are advertised as "the most accurate" mics and preamps yet then you want tone or flavor which is nothing more than a distortion of the original signal. It's an interesting question, one full of hypocracy IMO... and I have designed more than a few mic pre's in my day and heard/seen all the marketing and user hype BS.

 

 

not sure if this was directed at me but i'll bite

 

most of our favorite sounds on record are tracked with mics and pres that introduce some sort of distortion. it's really just a question of whether it is pleasing to the ear.

 

the classic neve preamp adds a considerable amount of distortion. a neumann u87 adds a bit of a distortion too. in the recording world it's all just another tool. of course none of these have anything to do with the type of distortion added by modern, low end, "TOOB" type equipment.

 

all mics have a different sound as do most preamps. i'm much quicker to notice the change when switching mics but thats not to say that the difference between a neve, API or modern transformerless preamp is anything small. i can be very big, especially when stacking lots of tracks on a recording.

 

and again...i don't really think any of that has very much to do with live sound. at least not until everything else in the system is of much better quality than the mic or pre.

[agedhorse]

Not directed at anybody in particular, just pointing out thatthe subject of good must be balanced out with good in what context. Is it good accurate, good flavored (distortions added), etc.

[monkeyland]

 

Not directed at anybody in particular, just pointing out thatthe subject of good must be balanced out with good in what context. Is it good accurate, good flavored (distortions added), etc.

 

 

right on. then my answer is yes. sometimes i choose mics and pres because they add distortion and sometimes i choose them because they do not.

 

in live sound i choose a preamp because it's clean and is attached to the mixer i like and i choose mics because they don't break

[IsildursBane]

 

So you use a preamp to add distortions to your signal??? Curious, if accuracy is desired, and plenty of money is spent buying what are advertised as "the most accurate" mics and preamps yet then you want tone or flavor which is nothing more than a distortion of the original signal. It's an interesting question, one full of hypocracy IMO... and I have designed more than a few mic pre's in my day and heard/seen all the marketing and user hype BS.

 

 

Not disputing the notion that this industry is full of BS, but I hardly ever hear anybody talking about "the most accurate" mics in the sense they want something completely neutral. IME, it's mostly the classical guys who want that and they do try to get clean, neutral gear throughout the chain.

 

I won't dispute that some theoretical benefit could be obtained by using a different preamp if that's the thing someone is looking for, but there are a TON of other factors MUCH more important. You won't see any worthwhile benefits until the rest of your rig is packed with top-level gear and your system finely tuned.

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

 

I won't dispute that some theoretical benefit could be obtained by using a different preamp if that's the thing someone is looking for, but there are a TON of other factors MUCH more important. You won't see any worthwhile benefits until the rest of your rig is packed with top-level gear and your system finely tuned. -Dan.

 

 

Agreed