My Gig Saturday Night

[Ryan.]

Okay, so I ran the sound for my bands gig on Saturday and here is what happened...

 

First of all, it was scary because this is the first time I got to mix from FOH during our sound check, which meant that if something had to be changed it would mean me running off stage to change it.

 

The first band was a hip hop crew and a DJ. The DJ had 1/4 outs from his tables, which meant I couldn't use the Direct Box I just got from audio pile. The only thing I had was TRS to XLR, so thats what we used. I wondered... had I accidently hit the Phantom Power switch on the mixwiz, would I have fried his tables?

 

Mixing them was fairly easy, other than the fact that one dude kept wanting the mids turned up and his lows turned down. (I tried to make him happy, but it was tough). The other annoying thing was the DJ would have some really low low end stuff and then not so low end, so I kept having to ride the EQ for his channels. They ended up sounding really great FOH, (but were still bitching about the monitor mixes).

 

Then we came on. I did a 2 hour set up + sound check with my own band before doors opened. Thought I had everything great! Ended up ripping peoples faces off with the first song. Way too loud. Not sure how it got up loud as the sound was great when we first tested in an empty room. Shouldn't meat bodies absorb sound? Only other issue was the toms. Just couldn't get them to stop ringing. What I should've done was used my extra SM57s. That probably would've helped a lot beyond the stupid Shure kit I have.

 

Ran off stage, turned down the main faders, and everyone was happy again.

 

Bill's Zipper lights came in the day before the show MEGA THANKS TO HIM. So we got one to fade on the wall behind us, and ended up having to use gaffer's tape to hold the other one up to shine across the stage. It all ended up looking pretty sweet. I was really happy with that.

 

So moral of the story is... next time I have my rig at a show and I have to mix from FOH, I'm paying someone to just do sound for the first song. Get everything dialed the way it needs to be and call it good. I can't be getting off stage to do it.

 

I took some video of my set up and the room which I'll post to this later for your opinions.

[samkokajko]

Yes you possibly could have fried his turn tables by turning on phantom power, it all depends on his equipment but 1/4" usually doesn't like phantom.

 

As far as the volume, my guess is that either you changed something while you were working on the DJ act or if nothing changed then maybe in the process of doing a 2 hour sound check you got too into it and between energy/perspective and ear fatigue from the duration you lost touch with what the volume actually was. Then when you kick back into it suddenly it wakes you up.

[IsildursBane]

 

The DJ had 1/4 outs from his tables, which meant I couldn't use the Direct Box I just got from audio pile.

 

 

That makes no sense to me. What DI doesn't have 1/4" inputs?

 

-Dan.

[Ryan.]

 

That makes no sense to me. What DI doesn't have 1/4" inputs? -Dan.

 

 

It has 1/8 stereo and RCA inputs... I thought the DJ was going to have 1/8 to rca from his laptop (it was what I was told by another member of the group). Turned out his tables only had 1/4 out.

[Unalaska]

This is why I always use 1/4 only DI boxes and have rca/rca cables with adaptors left plugged into 1 end. And keep some 1/8 to dual 1/4 around too.

 

Glad it went ok. Really you need a soundguy for the whole gig even if you're mixing the main act. What happens is there is so much work involved setting up and mixing that by the time you get to play you're too tired. And you have to pay attention to this detail and that one and that one there.

 

If you have to mix your own band always mix side stage and never leave gear unattended out front. The last few years I've been amazed how brazen people have gotten about walking up to a console and turning a random knob. While it is easier to mix out front on a sound only gig it's impossible to put the brains 75ft back and get anything done.

[scarecrowbob]

 

This is why I always use 1/4 only DI boxes and have rca/rca cables with adaptors left plugged into 1 end. And keep some 1/8 to dual 1/4 around too. Glad it went ok. Really you need a soundguy for the whole gig even if you're mixing the main act. What happens is there is so much work involved setting up and mixing that by the time you get to play you're too tired. And you have to pay attention to this detail and that one and that one there. If you have to mix your own band always mix side stage and never leave gear unattended out front. The last few years I've been amazed how brazen people have gotten about walking up to a console and turning a random knob. While it is easier to mix out front on a sound only gig it's impossible to put the brains 75ft back and get anything done.

 

 

+1 ro all that, especially the "glad it went okay" part.

[dboomer]

 

I wondered... had I accidently hit the Phantom Power switch on the mixwiz, would I have fried his tables?

 

 

Probably. You went straight from phono cartridge to mic input? That should sound like crap without an RIAA curve dialed in.

 

 

 

 

Shouldn't meat bodies absorb sound?

 

 

4 sabines per unit;)

[Ryan.]

I had a friend stay by the mixer and not let anyone close. I don't trust most strangers, especially when they're drinking. Though I will take candy from them.

 

It did go okay. Its just really difficult to mix like you said. The problem is... we make a couple hundred that night, which means the sound guys pay would take at least half. On the other hand, having good sound and not blowing people away is what keeps people coming back to more shows.

[Ryan.]

 

Probably. You went straight from phono cartridge to mic input? That should sound like crap without an RIAA curve dialed in.

 

 

Sounded good actually. He had 1/4 inch left and right outputs. Took my TRS to XLR from his left and right into my snake. Snake into XLR to channel 15 and 16 on the mixwiz, panned left and right. Sounded really good.

[samkokajko]

I am pretty sure he had some sort of preamp or at least RIAA compensation built in to the turn table. It wasn't just a phono output.

[MarkGifford-1]

If you're playing in the band, why is your console snaked?

 

MG

[Ryan.]

Cause I wanted to be able to mix from FOH, 40ft away. I do sound for everyone playing at this venue. Which this time was only one Hip Hop group, but is usually 2 other bands.

[Mogwix]

 

So moral of the story is... next time I have my rig at a show and I have to mix from FOH, I'm paying someone to just do sound for the first song.

 

Either pay the dude to do the sound the whole night and relax, or mix from the stage. Don't try to do both.

[Ryan.]

 

Rappers want themselves coming back through the monitors at AT LEAST 150dB. Did a show in the spring mixing monitors for a bunch of rap groups in toronto. SRX712M's on frontline, Claire P4's over SB28's for sidefills (midsize stage), SRX712M over SRX718S for drumfill. Promoter comes over and says, "all the bands want the monitors basically as loud as possible" "are you sure?" "yeah man, these guys never stop bitching that the monitors weren't loud enough." First group comes on stage for soundcheck and burst into song, then immediately drop to the floor, rolling around holding their ears. DJ is waving frantically to "TURN IT DOOOWWNNN MAAAN"

 

 

Well the other issue is that they are walking all over the stage while rapping. I rang out the monitors for each mic for my band, and we don't move all over the place. So when a guy gets mad cause when he's on the left of the stage cause the mix isn't the same as on the right... pound sand comes to mind.

[soul-x]

 

Probably. You went straight from phono cartridge to mic input? That should sound like crap without an RIAA curve dialed in.

 

 

I am pretty sure it probably went from a DJ mixer outputs: The DJ standard for a few decades has been a couple of Technics 1200s (or similar) with a Pioneer DJM mixer (or similar) between them -- hence the 1/4" outs.

 

So RIAA curve is applied before it ever gets to the soundman.

[Imwithpepe]

I hate to be the one that comes across as an asshole by saying it, but 9 times out of 10 you sound like you have no idea what the hell you are talking about when it comes to mixing a show. Something tells me you need to take a step back, think about what you are doing, try to learn some things, and then decide that it is ok to start mixing some shows. You're going to end up ruining someone's speakers, equipment, rack gear, etc. Sorry, I know it sucks to hear it but it's the truth.

[Mogwix]

 

I hate to be the one that comes across as an asshole by saying it, but 9 times out of 10 you sound like you have no idea what the hell you are talking about when it comes to mixing a show.

 

He admits that he has no idea what he's doing. He's been here on a daily basis asking a million questions. I could get upset that he's out there trying to do it without the proper knowledge, but at least he has a keen willingness to learn, and the best way to learn this trade is by doing it. Well, even better would be working under someone who DOES know what they're doing, but apparently finding that opportunity is not in his cards.

[soul-x]

 

I hate to be the one that comes across as an asshole by saying it, but 9 times out of 10 you sound like you have no idea what the hell you are talking about when it comes to mixing a show. Something tells me you need to take a step back, think about what you are doing, try to learn some things, and then decide that it is ok to start mixing some shows. You're going to end up ruining someone's speakers, equipment, rack gear, etc. Sorry, I know it sucks to hear it but it's the truth.

 

 

This guy is local to me and is a weekend warrior type who has bought all his own gear -- at great personal expense. By consulting this forum, he's made some decent choices in monetary investment and is learning quickly.

 

I think he's exactly the type of person this forum was designed to help. If we help him out, hopefully, he won't blow anything up and will learn something in the process.

 

In fact, that's solely why I come here: to learn. Personally, I get to gain a bit of knowledge from those with more time in the trenches than myself. And, hopefully as a bit of repayment, I can impart some of what I've learned along the way to guys like Subs.

[Shaster]

 

If you have to mix your own band always mix side stage and never leave gear unattended out front. The last few years I've been amazed how brazen people have gotten about walking up to a console and turning a random knob. While it is easier to mix out front on a sound only gig it's impossible to put the brains 75ft back and get anything done.

 

 

This was my concern a few threads ago. Glad you had a friend babysitting but....

 

I mix from stage on most gigs I do sound, and I cannot even imagine not being able to tweak during the show. Even killing the verbs/fx between songs, or changing the fx or, well you get what I'm saying.

 

And then there's the issue of IF a problem crops up you have to leave stage to fix it. If a channel shorted to full or whatever, it could be a long and embarassing (and costly) walk to the board. Just my opinion of course.

 

Glad it went okay, but it's risky imo.

[Shaster]

Further to the posts....

 

In Subs defense, he asks the questions that perhaps the silent majority are afraid to ask. It's only a guess, but I would reckon that many folks benefit from the answers to his queries - even those that know the answers, and have to frame succinct and articulate replies.

 

A thirst for knowledge without the big attitude - that's okay.

 

Back OT... Subs, you're lucky the rappers only wanted more mid, most want the soundman to "turn that S*%& up!

[Imwithpepe]

Like I said, I'm ok with being the asshole on this one. I understand if he's using his own equipment but in a situation like this, after the fact is hardly the time to be asking if you could have damaged someone's gear by doing x or y.

[Mogwix]

 

In Subs defense, he asks the questions that perhaps the silently majority are afraid to ask. It's only a guess, but I would reckon that many folks benefit from the answers to his queries - even those that know the answers, and have to frame succinct and articulate replies.

 

I've said it before. He's asking a lot of really good questions, and a lot of stuff that's really helpful to newcomers when properly addressed. Someone suggested and I agreed that subs should have all his threads moved to a sub forum... reading through that is like a crash-course in the details of pro sound.

 

... where every thread's answer is "it depends".

[Coaster]

it depends.

[philw44]

 

"all the bands want the monitors basically as loud as possible" "are you sure?" "yeah man, these guys never stop bitching that the monitors weren't loud enough." First group comes on stage for soundcheck and burst into song, then immediately drop to the floor, rolling around holding their ears. DJ is waving frantically to "TURN IT DOOOWWNNN MAAAN"

 

 

Wow, I'm surprised a threshold exists where they feel pain!

[Ryan.]

Hey all!

 

So you can be happy with being the asshole on this one, its fine. Its my equipment and if it blows up so be it. So far I've done okay.

 

I explained what I thought were the risks of plugging directly into my Mixer to the DJ, but I wasn't for sure if something like that could've happened, so I asked here. He understood too, and agreed that as long as the phantom wasn't engaged we were okay.

 

We went the whole night without the button being pressed, so hooray.

 

I really really appreciate all the help I get from you guys. Its not in my cards to just go take a class on live sound or sit next to a sound guy for hours. I learn what I can when I'm at a show and when I'm on here and when I can get a chance to talk to sound pros.

 

But there is a lot to learn. At least don't pretend to know it all before I blow things up. Instead I say to myself... "well this might blow something up, and then go for it." So far so good.

 

I can imagine that even someone as intelligent and experience as AgedHorse has blown something up in his life time and has learned the hard way. I try to avoid that by coming here, but I can't just download the database of knowledge and call myself a sound guy.

 

I'm a guitar player, and a mediocre one at that. Sound is a hobby.

 

Anyway... I forgot what I was saying, so thanks to you all very much!

 

Cause I'm TNT...