Gate or Compress first?

[jimivaughnking]

We run compressors on each vocal mic. We use a DBX 1046. Our keyboard player recently switched to a wireless headset mic. We can't get him to use the mute switch on it when he's not singing so we hear every burp, hiccup, swallow of his drink or heavy breathing when he gets exciting. It is annoying. Se we are wanting to use a gate. We use a gate for kick and snare on a 4 channel gate so we have an available channel just need to know the right order to put them in. Gate then compress or compress then gate?

Thanks

[Coaster]

a gate will not solve your problem.

[Axisplayer]

If you compress first you will lower the peaks which will make the gate harder to trigger since the dynamic range will be reduced...and as Coaster said, a gate won't fix the issue.

[jimivaughnking]

how will a gate not fix this? If the threshold is set to just under his singing level it will cut out all the unwanted background noise his mic is picking up.

[Rezrover]

But won't it "gate" after he starts singing?

[Coaster]

if you set the gate to function correctly while he is singing than ANY extraneous noise will also open the gate.

 

including someone else talking, a snare drum 10 feet away, his burps, farts, belches, sips, pants rubbing, fill in your own sound.

 

i know its easy to make up in your own mind what sound equipment does, but it doesnt work that way. its not a toaster or a microwave, it doesnt do what you tell it; it does what it does.

[jimivaughnking]

The problem is the noises he makes when he is not singing. Those are what we want muted out. He only sings about 40% of the time. The rest of the time his mic is on picking up noises we don't want coming through the PA. We're using gates on snare and kick with great success keeping non drum sounds out of those mics, we understand how they work. We are compressing the vocal mics and they are doing exactly what we want them to do on the vocals. We now want to combine the 2 units and wondered if there is a preferred signal path for them.

[Rezrover]

Do you use a sound man or mix from the stage?

[Coaster]

use the gate before the compressor. when it doesnt work, remove the gate from the chain and sell it.

 

see, we could have saved you time and money but you dont listen to us.

[bnelly428]

im surprised no one said it yet.

 

"it depends"

[mineame]

Here is a fix for ya...

 

Walk over to the mixing board... turn his vocal channel down to zero.

 

Now he isn't bothered with muting his headset (an asshole move on his part if you ask me) and your crowd isn't bothered with his burps and overly excited breathing.

[Mogwix]

Keyboard player, using a headset mic? why? Give him a mic on a stand, then he can move away from the damn thing when he's not singing.

 

A gate won't help, since once you get the threshold high enough to clip the unwanted sounds, it'll be clipping off his vocals as well. You can try to balance a low ratio with a high threshold, a slow attack, long hold, and slow release... but then you're still going to be clipping some of the vocal parts and that never sounds very good. I don't ever use gates on vocal mics.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

The problem is the noises he makes when he is not singing. Those are what we want muted out. He only sings about 40% of the time. The rest of the time his mic is on picking up noises we don't want coming through the PA. We're using gates on snare and kick with great success keeping non drum sounds out of those mics, we understand how they work. We are compressing the vocal mics and they are doing exactly what we want them to do on the vocals. We now want to combine the 2 units and wondered if there is a preferred signal path for them.

 

 

We understand the problem. You aren't understanding that a gate won't fix it. There isn't enough difference in level between a burp and singing, if any at all. In fact, the burps are likely louder.

 

The guy sounds dopey. Why won't he use the mute? Why don't you mute him the 60% he doesn't sing? There is no reliable hardware fix for this. And frankly I'd never spent money to fix something so easily remedied.

[mshifflett]

Keyboard player, using a headset mic? why? Give him a mic on a stand, then he can move away from the damn thing when he's not singing. A gate won't help, since once you get the threshold high enough to clip the unwanted sounds, it'll be clipping off his vocals as well. You can try to balance a low ratio with a high threshold, a slow attack, long hold, and slow release... but then you're still going to be clipping some of the vocal parts and that never sounds very good. I don't ever use gates on vocal mics.

 

+1

[Shaster]

I knew a bass player and keyboard player who had to share a room, while my band was at a three week hotel stint.

 

The keyboard player would get up early in the morning (thus disturbing the bass player) to go play tennis.

 

One day I'm waiting at the elevator, the doors open and the bass player walks off (looking oddly satisfied), followed by a stunned looking keyboard player, with an absolutely mangled tennis racquet.

 

Turns out the bass player had grabbed the racquet in the elevator, smashed it to pieces and then handed it back - problem solved.

 

Not that I'm advocating anything:)

 

But seriously, if your keyboard could sing as loud as a snare drum you might have a chance, but he doesn't so... go back to a mic on a stand - and tell him to lay off the beer and pop, and anything else that's fizzy.

[dboomer]

 

how will a gate not fix this?

 

 

With gate: an ou ay ating?

 

Without gate: Can you say gating?

[Coaster]

 

We understand the problem. You aren't understanding that a gate won't fix it. There isn't enough difference in level between a burp and singing, if any at all. In fact, the burps are likely louder. The guy sounds dopey. Why won't he use the mute? Why don't you mute him the 60% he doesn't sing? There is no reliable hardware fix for this. And frankly I'd never spent money to fix something so easily remedied.

 

 

this is why craig is a good mod; patience.

[Dogoth]

 

With gate: an ou ay ating? Without gate: Can you say gating?

 

 

I ust gree. You ed it per tly.