Members Hurrell Posted October 7, 2019 Members Share Posted October 7, 2019 Hi guys I picked up a Fender Rumble 30 bass amp the other day for use with my electric guitar. I don't play bass. I recently pickled up a 10" Celestion speaker. Would it be ok to replace the stock bass speaker with the celestion? To get a more appropriate tone etc.. Seems there might be hidden risks, like the bass amp putting out much more low-end (for example) which one might not hear/detect with the standard bass speaker installed but which would hurt a normal speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 7, 2019 Members Share Posted October 7, 2019 It should be all right as long as you only use the amp for guitar and the speaker can handle the Wattage of the amp. In fact, if you keep the volume to a reasonable level it should be okay with a bass. The reason a bass amp has more low end coming out is that there is more low end going in, i.e., from a bass. But you may not need to swap the speaker. If you like the sound as is, that's all that matters. Plenty of guitarists use a Fender Bassman, which was nominally designed for bass. I originally played a Strat copy through my SWR bass amp with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 8, 2019 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2019 well, the wattage has to match, ...and the ohms...have to match. Do you know the impedance of the existing speaker, and is it the same as the replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hurrell Posted October 9, 2019 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2019 Thanks for the replies. Yes both speakers (original in cab, and new one) are 8 ohms. Not sure about wattage but new one probably wont have an issue handling 25-30 watts. "The reason a bass amp has more low end coming out is that there is more low end going in, i.e., from a bass." - makes sense, I was worried the was pushing out frequencies that a normal guitar speaker may be ill suited for. On that note - is a bass guitar speaker any different from a normal guitar speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 9, 2019 Members Share Posted October 9, 2019 If you knew the model of Celestion 10" its easy to look up the specs. I doubt think Celestion makes any new 10's with wattages less then 30W. Even their Cheap $35 speakers are 30W so you should be safe from blowing the coil even cranked up. Fender bass heads typically do have a broad frequency response. The guitar speaker should help making a guitar sound better but its still likely to be bass heavy and possibly have some resonances that aren't the best for guitar. Most of it will be the cab, not the speaker. Bass cabs are typically tuned and ported to the speaker so it produces maximum bass frequencies. The tones you get even using a guitar speaker will therefore produce allot of lows. it can even be out of tune with the cab and produce some oddball resonances making some notes loud and others dead. If it is a good match you can probably expect that amp to be good for rhythm and jazz tones. I own and have owned many Fender bass amps including some SS versions and they can produce some warm chord tones and even jangle when the top end is cranked up. You'll likely find the tone controls on that amp are more suitable in targeting bass strings instead of guitar strings. Example, Bass will be too low for guitar strings, mid control acts more like a bass control on guitar strings and treble acts more like a mid control. The specs show bass targeting 60Hz. Guitar strings are an octave higher and lows are closer to 120~160Hz. Mids on this amp are 630Hz. On a guitar its usually between 1~4K Highs on this aren't too bad. They get as high as 6K and many guitar speakers roll off at maybe 5K. Many guitar amps will have a treble control that goes from maybe 4~5K up to 10K or so. you really don't want much above 6K because it interferes with Vocals Cymbals etc. in a mix. Even guitar pickups will typically target the mids between 500~5K with the strongest bumps in the 1~4K ranges. BASS: ±15dB @ 60Hz BASS: MID: ±15dB @ 630Hz TREBLE: ±15dB @ 6kHz Like I said it should work so long as you take the time to tweak the amps EQ. If you find it lacking get yourself an EQ pedal and use it to nudge your midrange tones and it should sound better. Unfortunately it doesn't have an effect loop which could place that EQ between the preamp and power amp, but given how clean that amp will be it should be fine when placed last in an effects chain. That amp dies have an overdrive too. Not sure how good it will sound on guitar however. You may be able to dial up just a little to get some grunt but I'd definitely recommend getting pedals for drive. Even a multi effects pedal with amp modeling might be ideal. This way you can use the bass amp as a power amp and use the effects pedal as your preamp. Some of the newer Vox/Digitec/Korg/Zoom pedals do an excellent job modeling amps on a budget and at least let you get close to having workable guitar tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 9, 2019 Members Share Posted October 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Hurrell said: Thanks for the replies. Yes both speakers (original in cab, and new one) are 8 ohms. Not sure about wattage but new one probably wont have an issue handling 25-30 watts. "The reason a bass amp has more low end coming out is that there is more low end going in, i.e., from a bass." - makes sense, I was worried the was pushing out frequencies that a normal guitar speaker may be ill suited for. On that note - is a bass guitar speaker any different from a normal guitar speaker? It depends on the speaker and the company that made it. A low end amp like your Fender is probably equipped with a generic speaker that could go in any random amp or even a stereo system. Speakers that are specifically made for bass use have a frequency response that's tailored for bass. A bass speaker will typically have a longer "excursion," meaning the distance the cone can travel without damage. They usually have higher power handling too. BTW, your Rumble 30 has a closed back cab so there's no question of the cab being "tuned and ported" for a specific speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 10, 2019 Members Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 4:30 PM, DeepEnd said: It depends on the speaker and the company that made it. A low end amp like your Fender is probably equipped with a generic speaker that could go in any random amp or even a stereo system. Speakers that are specifically made for bass use have a frequency response that's tailored for bass. A bass speaker will typically have a longer "excursion," meaning the distance the cone can travel without damage. They usually have higher power handling too. BTW, your Rumble 30 has a closed back cab so there's no question of the cab being "tuned and ported" for a specific speaker. Fender makes their own speakers. There's nothing generic at all about them. Back before they had half a dozen different manufacturers but that changed sometime in the early 80's if I remember right. I cant say all of their cheap imported amps like squire are made by that same fender owned company. There many be some other vendors in China and Mexico making them too. but given the build quality is identical I don't think it matters much. They definitely are Not Hi Fi speakers. They have paper surrounds, not foam. The excursion is not longer either. nice try but it has nothing to do with reality. The main difference between Fender Guitar and bass speakers is the thickness of the paper and the rigidity of the spider. Try pushing the cone in on most bass speakers and you'll find they are usually "allot" stiffer then guitar speakers. That's the same for most bass speakers manufactured. Compare any Bass 10" of the same wattage to a guitar version and you'll fee its a more durable cone. Of course with that extra paper thickness, you have a loss of frequencies and often SPL when similar coils are being used. heavier paper means more weight which means more inertia which consumes mechanical energy. The spider, surround, paper thickness are all tougher too. Bass frequencies are always going to need to be louder to balance a mix because of the way our ears work. Mid frequencies at hearing threshold need to have bass levels at 50~60dB higher. Low frequencies flex the paper a whole lot more then the midrange frequencies thinner guitar speakers see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 11, 2019 Members Share Posted October 11, 2019 21 hours ago, WRGKMC said: Fender makes their own speakers. There's nothing generic at all about them. Back before they had half a dozen different manufacturers but that changed sometime in the early 80's if I remember right. I cant say all of their cheap imported amps like squire are made by that same fender owned company. There many be some other vendors in China and Mexico making them too. but given the build quality is identical I don't think it matters much. They definitely are Not Hi Fi speakers. They have paper surrounds, not foam. The excursion is not longer either. nice try but it has nothing to do with reality. The main difference between Fender Guitar and bass speakers is the thickness of the paper and the rigidity of the spider. Try pushing the cone in on most bass speakers and you'll find they are usually "allot" stiffer then guitar speakers. That's the same for most bass speakers manufactured. Compare any Bass 10" of the same wattage to a guitar version and you'll fee its a more durable cone. Of course with that extra paper thickness, you have a loss of frequencies and often SPL when similar coils are being used. heavier paper means more weight which means more inertia which consumes mechanical energy. The spider, surround, paper thickness are all tougher too. Bass frequencies are always going to need to be louder to balance a mix because of the way our ears work. Mid frequencies at hearing threshold need to have bass levels at 50~60dB higher. Low frequencies flex the paper a whole lot more then the midrange frequencies thinner guitar speakers see. And once again you've derailed someone else's thread just to start a pointless argument with me. How mature. I really should put you on my ignore list but these exchanges are just so much fun. We're not talking about a Hot Rod Deville, this is a cheap Chinese made amp. Do you really think the quality of parts is equal? A few years ago a former coworker gave me a low end Rumble bass amp, a Rumble 25 IIRC, with a blown speaker in lieu of gas money. I removed the old, unmarked, obviously generic speaker, replaced it with another generic speaker, and sold the amp at a small profit. I'm a bit surprised you've apparently never seen a hi-fi speaker with a paper surround because I have. As you point out, a bass speaker needs to move more air than a guitar speaker. How do you suppose it does that? By having a stiffer cone? Or by moving more, thus a longer excursion? The frame, surround, voice coil, etc. are all made to allow the speaker to move further than a comparable guitar speaker, and produce higher SPLs at lower frequencies. As you say, nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 14, 2019 Members Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/11/2019 at 2:55 PM, DeepEnd said: And once again you've derailed someone else's thread just to start a pointless argument with me. How mature. I really should put you on my ignore list but these exchanges are just so much fun. We're not talking about a Hot Rod Deville, this is a cheap Chinese made amp. Do you really think the quality of parts is equal? A few years ago a former coworker gave me a low end Rumble bass amp, a Rumble 25 IIRC, with a blown speaker in lieu of gas money. I removed the old, unmarked, obviously generic speaker, replaced it with another generic speaker, and sold the amp at a small profit. I'm a bit surprised you've apparently never seen a hi-fi speaker with a paper surround because I have. As you point out, a bass speaker needs to move more air than a guitar speaker. How do you suppose it does that? By having a stiffer cone? Or by moving more, thus a longer excursion? The frame, surround, voice coil, etc. are all made to allow the speaker to move further than a comparable guitar speaker, and produce higher SPLs at lower frequencies. As you say, nice try. I had a friend try and sell me a Rumble and left it with me for a few weeks so I happen to know exactly what I'm talking about. This is the 25W speaker Fender sticks in those amps. The quality is the same as the other Branded ceramic speakers fender typically uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 14, 2019 Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2019 okay, gents, neutral corners. Answer the OP, and stop cyberurinating everywhere please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hurrell Posted October 18, 2019 Author Members Share Posted October 18, 2019 Got a bit caught up with unreal life and forgot to check this thread. Loads of good intel, thank you. Will read and process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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