Offensive Sound Reinforcement Ad

[agedhorse]

For some reason, this one got under my skin as I am sure it will with other older timers in the business...

 

It's a full page Mackie ad in Pro Sound News comparing themselves (without saying the name) to Yamaha.

 

The lead-in is how "they" make jet skis, quads and crotch rockets and Mackie has dedicated 20 years to perfecting the analog compact mixer.

 

Clearly directed at the younger inexperienced gullible buyer who thinks they know more than they do, it's so misleading as to be laughable except that the inexperienced customer will lap up every word since Mackie gear is so desireable in the eyes of those who are clueless.

 

To set the facts straight, Yamaha has been building high quality analog mixers that do not suffer from the high rate of failures that Mackie products have a well documented history of for well over 30 years. Out of the 12 analog compact Yamaha mixers that I own, every single one of them is still 100% functional and 100% reliable. Out of the roughly 12 Mackie 1604VLZ's that I have installed for customers, only one is still 100% functional. The others have all been retired due to failure. None were over 10 years old, some much less. The one that is still operating is about 11 or 12 years old.

 

Let's talk about failures... the 24.4 and 32.4 were pretty dreadful and not terribly repairable, the 1604VLZ was one of the biggest product reliability disasters in the industry, their one and only misguided attempt at a larger frame console was met with embarrassment as well and earned them one of the most rider un-friendly products of the generation. Then there's their TT-24 digital console which was certainly a forward thingking product with potential except for... you guessed it... reliability problems galore. Oh yeah, their FR series amps were another interesting story. They chided the industry's lack of understanding of power amps ith the introduction of the FR1200 which was promptly discontinued due to high failure rates and the propensity of the amp to burst into flames. Their 1400 and 2600 were better but clearly was never adopted by the pro audio industry as acceptable.Yamaha on the other hand introduced the P2200 and 2201 in like 1975 and many are still operating to this day. Yamaha as a pro audio company hasn't suffered as many product failures in it's 35 year pro audio track record as mackie has in 20 years.

 

Yamaha introduced the PM-700 in about 1973, I just recently saw one that was still being used, fully functional. I think 35 years of perfecting the analog audio mixer applies to Yamaha and they actually did it, whereas Mackie's track record is just about as bad as it gets in mixer reliability in the industry. Sounds like Mackie's stooped to new lows in sour grapes advertising. So what if Yamaha has many other successful product divisions, how about Mackie trying to have just one successful product division.

 

Any older timers care to relate their experiences?

 

{rant off}

[Ryan.]

I'm no old timer. But I love my Yahama drums. I think it says more about a company if they can diversify and still make quality products no matter what they're building. Whether that be a speaker or a dirtbike. You can only lie for so long. Eventually reality shows up and you lose.

[Axisplayer]

Lets look at the past 20 years of pro-audio for a minute...

 

Yamaha:

PM3K

PM4K

PM5D

PM5DRH

PM1

SPX2000

SPX1000

 

 

Mackie:

?

[JohnnyGraphic]

My first real mixer was a Mackie after drinking the cool-aid. I am no old-timer, either but my limited experience has taught me to get far-far away from Mackie. Funny thing, never got a sound I really liked until I got rid of it and bought a MixWiz.

 

Johnny

[jasps]

 

For some reason, this one got under my skin as I am sure it will with other older timers in the business... It's a full page Mackie ad in Pro Sound News comparing themselves (without saying the name) to Yamaha. The lead-in is how "they" make jet skis, quads and crotch rockets and Mackie has dedicated 20 years to perfecting the analog compact mixer. Clearly directed at the younger inexperienced gullible buyer who thinks they know more than they do, it's so misleading as to be laughable except that the inexperienced customer will lap up every word since Mackie gear is so desireable in the eyes of those who are clueless. To set the facts straight, Yamaha has been building high quality analog mixers that do not suffer from the high rate of failures that Mackie products have a well documented history of for well over 30 years. Out of the 12 analog compact Yamaha mixers that I own, every single one of them is still 100% functional and 100% reliable. Out of the roughly 12 Mackie 1604VLZ's that I have installed for customers, only one is still 100% functional. The others have all been retired due to failure. None were over 10 years old, some much less. The one that is still operating is about 11 or 12 years old. Let's talk about failures... the 24.4 and 32.4 were pretty dreadful and not terribly repairable, the 1604VLZ was one of the biggest product reliability disasters in the industry, their one and only misguided attempt at a larger frame console was met with embarrassment as well and earned them one of the most rider un-friendly products of the generation. Then there's their TT-24 digital console which was certainly a forward thingking product with potential except for... you guessed it... reliability problems galore. Oh yeah, their FR series amps were another interesting story. They chided the industry's lack of understanding of power amps ith the introduction of the FR1200 which was promptly discontinued due to high failure rates and the propensity of the amp to burst into flames. Their 1400 and 2600 were better but clearly was never adopted by the pro audio industry as acceptable.Yamaha on the other hand introduced the P2200 and 2201 in like 1975 and many are still operating to this day. Yamaha as a pro audio company hasn't suffered as many product failures in it's 35 year pro audio track record as mackie has in 20 years. Yamaha introduced the PM-700 in about 1973, I just recently saw one that was still being used, fully functional. I think 35 years of perfecting the analog audio mixer applies to Yamaha and they actually did it, whereas Mackie's track record is just about as bad as it gets in mixer reliability in the industry. Sounds like Mackie's stooped to new lows in sour grapes advertising. So what if Yamaha has many other successful product divisions, how about Mackie trying to have just one successful product division. Any older timers care to relate their experiences? {rant off}

 

Not an old timer, but have broad experience with Mackie. IMO, Mackie has been great at offering more features for the price. When their 8 buss product came out, it was an instant success because no one else could offer those features for the low price.

 

The SRM450 product has been reliable for me, and I have a set that has been working fine since close to the time they released the product.

 

That said, my experience mirrors yours with their mixer products especially. The CR1604, VLZ 4 buss, 8 buss, SR, etc...I've used them all and none of them have had the kind of longevity that even the lowest end Yamaha consoles have had. I too dislike the marketing bull Mackie has, but find myself smirking reading this here because I cannot believe younger folks than me would actually consider Mackie gear as desireable. It is throwaway, disposable electronics. Buyer beware!

[soul-x]

 

Yamaha on the other hand introduced the P2200 and 2201 in like 1975 and many are still operating to this day.

 

 

You know, I was just looking at a manual for one of these and thinking, "why doesn't anybody put together documentation this in-depth and informative today?"

 

Which I guess leads me to my add-on to this discussion: Yamaha wrote the book on live sound -- literally.

 

Pretty much anybody who does sound today is a disciple of the principles and practices they originally outlined in their documentation.

[JohnMCA72]

I saw that add, too. For a long time, I've considered Yamaha to be a company that I'd feel comfortable buying any of their products whether that's audio gear horns, motorcycles, or whatever.

[Axisplayer]

When was the last time you walked into a repair center and saw a stack of Yamaha gear big enough to notice? Mackie?

[monthlymixcd]

I LOVE my (new to me) Yamaha... and it goes WAY past "11".

[Mogwix]

 

The lead-in is how "they" make jet skis, quads and crotch rockets and Mackie has dedicated 20 years to perfecting the analog compact mixer.

 

Yamaha has been making pianos, drums, and horns for well over a hundred years. They've been making boats and motorcycles since the 40's, and have been on the cutting edge of live sound development for 20 years before mackie even existed. Yamaha's history speaks for itself.

 

Oh, and it took 20 years to develop a compact mixer that doesn't even perform to the lowest standards? Yamaha has road-proven large format consoles, amplifiers, processing, and speakers that have toured the world over a million times.

[agedhorse]

 

Lets look at the past 20 years of pro-audio for a minute... Yamaha: PM3K PM4K PM5D PM5DRH PM1 SPX2000 SPX1000 Mackie: ?

 

 

Don't forget some of Yamaha's other industry standard products like the PM-1000, 1200, 1800, 2k, the M406, the SPX-90, 900 and 990, Rev 7 & 5, their digital speaker processing, their analog eq's and crossovers and so much more.

 

There's no comparison between the two companies really.

[soul-x]

I LOVE my (new to me) Yamaha... and it goes WAY past "11".

 

But notice even right there in your picture Yamaha displays its roots. The logo stamped on your control cluster: tuning forks.

[Axisplayer]

 

Don't forget some of Yamaha's other industry standard products like the PM-1000, 1200, 1800, 2k, the M406, the SPX-90, 900 and 990, Rev 7 & 5, their digital speaker processing, their analog eq's and crossovers and so much more. There's no comparison between the two companies really.

 

 

Yea, I ran out of room....due to Mackie's list of touring gear taking up SO much room in the post.

[JohnnyGraphic]

 

But notice even right there in your picture Yamaha displays its roots. The logo stamped on your control cluster: tuning forks.

 

 

I just found this very interesting site. Yamaha goes WAY back to 1887!!! Started off making reed organs!

 

Johnny

[Ryan.]

From wikipedia:

 

Corporate mission

Kand? (???) is a Japanese word, used by Yamaha to describe their corporate mission. Kand? in translation describes the sensation of profound excitement and gratification derived from experiencing supreme quality and performance.

[Chaff67]

 

For some reason, this one got under my skin... The lead-in is how "they" make jet skis, quads and crotch rockets and Mackie has dedicated 20 years to perfecting the analog compact mixer.

 

 

This shouldn't really get under your skin. What Mackie is doing actually benefits Yamaha more. All they are doing is comparing themselves against the benchmark. GM tried the same campaign against Honda earlier this year. It didn't hurt Honda in the least, actually it probably helped sales.

[soul-x]

 

This shouldn't really get under your skin. What Mackie is doing actually benefits Yamaha more. All they are doing is comparing themselves against the benchmark. GM tried the same campaign against Honda earlier this year. It didn't hurt Honda in the least, actually it probably helped sales.

 

 

Yeah but I doubt GMs tactic was: "Pffft... You wanna buy a car from a lawnmower company??!!"

[Ryan.]

Yeah but I doubt GMs tactic was: "Pffft... You wanna buy a car from a lawnmower company?"

 

Don't forget this guy!

 

[fishmanrod]

It's just some whipper snapper at Mackie with a new marketing angle. How can they be good if they market all this other crap, too?

 

I had an old powered Yamaha mixer, can't even remember the number, 12 channels, analog VU meters, built like a tank, took 2 glasses of beer one night and kept running ! We dried it out the next day and it still ran well!

 

Yamaha CP70, what a great product! An accoustic piano you could move and not tune because it has bars, not strings! At least I think that is how it worked.

 

My yamaha guitar amp (30 years old now, and used by a buddies son) still works great. My yamaha surround sound system is still going strong, too!

 

I have had 2 mackie mixers, no problem with either one, and they both retained their value quite well for trade in. Would I buy another, probably not, because other stuff sounds better. They do pack a lot of features into their stuff, though, and it seems more targeted at the newbie.

[soul-x]

Who wants to take odds on whether Greg Mackie owns a copy of the Yamaha SR handbook?

[bharat]

mackie cfx20 was first mixer of my life,, very affordable and succesful in 2000,, but 5 yrs later when i bought sr 24 . didn't found as reliable as older cfx . faders got damaged in couple of years. cfx is still serving well to one of my friend to whom i sold.

 

After this experience i never thought about mackies.

[Shaster]

I think when Mackie was still Mackie, they were on to a good thing. I remember phoning the company in Washington (was it Redmond?) circa 1993, and asking them a summing question about my CR1604. Somebody actually answered the phone and answered my question, right there and then.

 

But how times have changed.

 

As for Yamaha, I still use a Yamaha EQ I purchased used twenty years ago. And my SPXII that I bought new in 1988 is still kicking (although I hear the internal battery doesn't last forever).

 

I also know someone that worked for Yamaha (here in Canada). He's got a smaller Yamaha system (must have had it for years) that we still use for pub gigs.

 

I see older Yamaha products all over the place - Mackie, not so much.

[Telecruiser]

As I understand it, Mackie, from a business standpoint, has one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. This is may be just a last ditch attempt to try and save their asses.

[Rezrover]

Maybe Yamaha bought Mackie and started this whole ad campaign for this very reason.

[hornplayer]

I learned way back in Marketing 101 in college.

When you refer to a competitor's product in your advertising, you are creating a standard by which you will be measured and judged.

If that is so, Mackie is going to get creamed!