Members Shamdog Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Ok, just to be up front about this - Everyone here knows that I'm an idiot, right? Ok. We had a show last night at a local Firehouse. I got there with the following rig: 1 PV 14 Mixer 1 Yamaha MG8 Mixer (used to sub-mix drums)1 Bherringer CX2310 Crossover1 DBX 231 EQ - Monitor EQ1 Rane 15B 2/15 EQ - Mains EQ1 PV IPR 1600 Amp - Monitor amp1 Crown XS700 Amp - Mains amp1 Crown XLS 602 - Subs amp2 Peavey 15" Wedge Monitors2 Yorkville Pulse 12" Monitors2 Community CSX40-S2 Subs (2x15 each)2 Yamaha Club S115V mains. When I got it all hooked up, each amp had ONE CHANNEL BLOWN/DEAD!!!! I'm not sure if it was a bad power supply there or what (I don't have a "Power Conditioner"). No matter what I tried, it was the same result. Even tried running direct from the board to the power amps (one at a time) with nothing else in the chain, and it was the same. The IPR played intermittantly on CH2 for a bit, and then died out, too. I patched the mains into a single channel of the XS and XLS, and ran only 2 monitors of of the good channel of the IPR. No subs but really didn't need them anyway, even though it was a sold out show of 250 people. I haven't taken a look at the rig yet, but does anyone have any idea where to start? The IPR was bought new, the others used, but all amps worked fine at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 You had 3 amps each with a blown channel all at the same time? Sounds fishy... Like incorrect patching or faulty board or cables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 No, I switched everything around. I even patched direct from the mixer to the amps, fornd a channel that worked, and then switched to the other channel of the same amp. Only one side worked on each. I can't believe it either. Definately a bad channel each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Start the old "hunt and peck" method. Not very lkikely that you would take one whole side of your rig out. Start with the board and check both outputs. Its gotta be way up the chain somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 When I got it all hooked up, each amp had ONE CHANNEL BLOWN/DEAD!!!! "Blown/dead" like as in "how?" Fault indicator activated or just not passing signal (but otherwise seemingly functioning normally)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 No fault indicaters at all. No sound at all from the XS and XLS. IPR, which runs off the monitor out, not the main out, had some signal to ch2, but then showed DTT clip light a few times, then died completley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Maybe check for a mono/stereo input switch on the back somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members turcmic Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 bridge mode engaged:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 take the working channel out of your mixer, hook it to your amp and when it works on one side of the power amp, swap it to the other side of the power amp and see if that also works. if it doesnt the amp is at fault. if it does something else is at fault, like a cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Try the rig with the IPR unplugged completely from the chain. No line level or power connections plugged in. Sounds like you may have an IPR without the capacitor mod from the factory. Try unplugging it and seeing if the other amp(s) work. Also, never put power amps on a power conditioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Bridge was the first thing I thought of. I NEVER run bridge, so it would be VERY strange if all three got switched. Plus, the IPR ran ch2 for a while. Coaster - That's what I did. I took the cable with known signal on the good side, which gave me sound, and switched it to the bad side...nothing. On all three!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hopefully you didn't have any fancy patch panels that tied all the minus outs of the amps together? They should ALWAYS be isolated from each other and the inputs and chassis ground. On the IPR in particular channel two has the plus out internally grounded not the minus out as on channel one . If you accidentally plugged two amp channels into one speaker that would do bad things too . Oh, and "power conditioners" aren't needed for power amps and can actually cause problems. Any 1/4" plugs used for speakers? They should aways be connected and disconnected with the amps off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 take the working channel out of your mixer, hook it to your amp and when it works on one side of the power amp, swap it to the other side of the power amp and see if that also works. if it doesnt the amp is at fault. if it does something else is at fault, like a cable. I'll suggest your trouble shooting method in a somewhat reverse order (working backward toward the amps): 1) Check the cables and AC power source (with a VOM or similar). 2) Check the speakers (with a thumper and a VOM meter or similar). 3) Check the line outs from the mixer and then work down the line toward the amps (with a compressor or similar that will show input signal on a display... a thumper works good for this too). 4) When all of the above checks out... then hook up the amps, one channel at a time. I suggest the dysfunctional amps are a symptom... the problem is elsewhere. Amplifiers are an expensive to service test device. "Thumper": http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Galaxy+Audio+Cricket&hl=en&num=10&lr=&cr=&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5232137556773782054&sa=X&ei=4J-YTbC6K5K0sAP0q_zHBQ&ved=0CDYQ8wIwAg# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Just got done with the first round of testing. Mixer straight into the amps. ALL AMPS WORKING FINE AT HOME AGAIN. Not sure what the deal is/was, but I'll test more tonight. Gotta go to soccer now. Thanks for all the input. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 its possible the speakers were not correctly hooked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 My very first inclination would be to blame the crossover. Are you running in stereo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 My very first inclination would be to blame the crossover. Are you running in stereo? He bypassed the X-over, and went straight to the amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 3, 2011 Members Share Posted April 3, 2011 Another reason for being ultra-rigid in wiring/configuring/following all standards when it comes to building up racks. To be able to confidently eliminate all interconnects from the troubleshooting equation makes for improved efficiency when it comes to sorting out something goofy. When nothing ever changes with the configuration, and it CAN'T be changed, you can move onto the next possibility. Hence my wiring all amp racks with processing inside, and nothing but I/O accessable. Programs locked off. Now, it's a complete functional block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Well, after a full day of soccer, I'm back at it today. Just to recap, it must have been me that screwed things up at my gig. I must have patched one channel wrong, though I swear it was right, and caused my problems. Everything works fine now, except the crossover/subs. I have the main outs from my PV14 going into the inputs of CH1 and CH2 of the x-over. I have each the high outs from the x-over going into each channel of my 15 band EQ, and from there each channel of a XS700, and then to the FOH speakers. I have the mono sub out from the x-over into a splitter and then into each channel of a XLS602, then to the subs. I have the selector switch pushed in to select stereo 2-way on the x-over. The prob I'm having is that everything (except subs, of course) works fine without the x-over. When I put it in the chain as above, no FOH sound at all. Haven't even checked the subs for sound yet as I need the tops to work first. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 4, 2011 CMS Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 First, a minor moderation issue: Please don't use "WTF" or any similar abbreviation of profanity in thread titles. Pretty much anything goes inside a thread, but we need to keep the titles "family friendly". Not a biggie, and I 'fixed' the title. So the problem now is that with the arrangement you want to use, the tops work if connected through the crossover, but the subs do not work running directly to the amp from the mixer sub-out? When you wrote "no FOH sound at all", did you mean just the subs, or everything? The signal path is mixer sub-out |splitter cable | XLS602 ? And the tops are mixer L & R outs | crossover inputs | EQ | amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Craig - Thanks for fixing my mistake. As you might imagine, I was pretty upset at the time when I thought I had blown 3 amps in one night. I'm a little calmer now. I'll be carefull from now on. The problem now is no signal to the FOH Tops when using the x-over. Without the crossover in the chain at all, the FOH Tops work fine on a chain of mixer - EQ - amp - speakers. No subs hooked up at all. When I connect the x-over as I stated above, I get no signal to the FOH Tops power amp (XS700). I have not even tried the subs yet, as I need FOH Tops more than I need subs. I will give it a shot now. BTW - The input of the sub amp (XLS 602) would be coming from the x-over, not the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 4, 2011 Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Dunno if this applies here but rule #1 is "Don't Panic" . It's way too easy to start thrashing about and make things worse when things go in the crapper on yah. Oh, and sound like your crossover took a dump on yah . Not much you can do about that except get it fixed or replaced. In a pinch you can just run full range to the tops and subs to get you through the night. If you have independent GEQ's you can run the tops off one channel with the lows pulled out and the subs off the other with the highs pulled out to get through the night. Not a bad idea to think about what you would do if this or that piece of equipment craps out on you - make sure you can survive with any single failure you can imagine. BTW I see too many folks out there without any backup to their mixer, what's up with that? At a minimum I carry a two channel 'ringer - it would be WAY less embarrassing to have to use that than to have to explain why the show has to be cancelled because you didn't have a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ranger...Didn't panic at the show, jury-riged it to get us through. However, I only have those 3 amps, and another show on the 22nd. I'm unemployed so no way to get $$$ to replace or repair them. The panic set in when I got home. BTW - I was on pain pills and Jim Beam for my broken toe, which was really aggravated by playing a show, when I posted. Maybe that had something to do with both my screw up and the panic? Anyway, does it sound like I have the x-over connected right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted April 4, 2011 Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 maybe the behringer let the magic die? you can go ahead and hook the subs up similar to the tops to check for continuity, they will just output a full range signal - ok for testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Not worried about the subs per se. If the Tops don't work, I won't need subs. I just wanted to see if I was hooking things up correctly before I start the big hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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