School Fair

[jgthatsme]

Yes, I wanted to avoid this, but I couldn`t: http://vimeo.com/24448173 There was no place under the stage to place them

 

 

Not that I'm God's gift to women, but why do all the fat chicks think they're hot when they're not...not even close....

[RoadRanger]

I would expect the TH118 in groups of 4 or more to be a much more impressive system and have a hunch that's what the intended application is probably geared around. The problem with this is that most folks do not look at the entire picture and expect a single cabinet to perform like 1/4 of a cluster of 4 which it will not.

Danley swears that their tapped horn subs do not get lower in groups like traditional horn subs. They actually go as low in singles as large clusters of conventional horns of the same throat length. To tell you the truth Danley's main emphasis on the megachurch market kinda creeps me out and if any other company made anything comparable I'd have bought those instead. I'm pretty sure they haven't broken the laws of physics with these but they sure are amazing. I don't know how long those 1.5 inch p2p (?) xmax drivers will last compared to a conventional driver but I haven't heard of any issues with them when driven at the recommended power with the proper processing. I do wish they published the xmax and xmech of the drivers and a displacement graph of it in the cab - I smell paranoia and that's a big part of the "creeps me out" factor. I held out for two years but finally had to "drink the koolaid" .

[agedhorse]

Properly processed, it doesn't matter how big the amp is... hint hint.

I feel you on the creep factor. Marketing and personal moral compass co-mingled bothers me too.

[RoadRanger]

Properly processed, it doesn't matter how big the amp is... hint hint.

Problem is that Danley doesn't seem to like to publish limiting specs. The spec sheet on the TH-Mini implies you should limit the peak voltage to 212 volts as that is what it takes to get the 135db peak SPL . The TH-118 requires 240 peak volts to deliver it's 143db peak SPL rating. Wacky or what?

[agedhorse]

That's one reason why I don't mess with them, whenever something is marketed in a way that doesn't make sense nor does it match with my experience in the real world (don't forget that I test state of the art equipment all the time so my perception of what's real and what's "hopeful" is pretty up to speed), I look elsewhere. Add to it the very real perception as to the market the company is deeply rooted in and it's not my cup of tea.

[RoadRanger]

I added the peak SPL rating of the TH-118 to my post above - you'll note that it is 8db more than a TH-Mini. I have compared a TH-Mini to an SRX718S and found them about equal above 50Hz. The extra 8db of the TH-118 should thereby put it around the output of a pair of SRX728S, no? The relationship should hold even if all are powered "down" to their RMS ratings. with the TH-118 rated at 137db continuous in half space vs 133db continuous for an SRX728S in halfspace (assuming their spec sheet shows full space). So even if we toss the "peak" and "program" ratings the Danley's look crazy loud .

[agedhorse]

This does not hold up to me experience. I think you will find a great difference when comparing the small signal model with the large signal model.

Your comparison to the mini also ignores the coupling benefit that the 718 achieves when a second one is added. Two 718 will extend the -3dB point down a few Hz as well as increase the sensitivity at the bottom end of the curve significantly. Then add another 3dB for double the power and you will begin to see where the model falls apart. At the maximum SPL end of the curve, power compression (from some of the same and some slightly different mechanisms) will be greater and steeper on the single TH Mini as well as the single TH118 as you begin to approach around 800 watts.

Note that some of the claimed numbers do not match the graph, leading me to believe the graph is HEAVILY smoothed.

It's not a bad speaker, in fact it's a very good speaker. Just don't read more into it than is there. Some critical data is missing and some numbers are extrapolated from the small signal equations that I guarantee will not hold up in the large signal analysis. That is what is leading to some somewhat inaccurate conclusions.

AND... wait a minute, this is NOT a 1W/1M curve on the TH-118. All of these specs are based on 28.3 volts at 10M (or 2.83V@1M), so right off the top every number must be reduced by 3dB since that's a 2 Watt power input because it's a 4 ohm box and it's spec'd using the standard voltage and nor corrected for 1W.

NOW, this matches pretty much what I would expect under the small signal equations.

This is where the details are CRITICAL to the comparison. Either subtract 3dB from the Danley numbers or add 3dB to the JBL numbers (small signal only).

[camplg]

I added the peak SPL rating of the TH-118 to my post above - you'll note that it is 8db more than a TH-Mini. I have compared a TH-Mini to an SRX718S and found them about equal above 50Hz. The extra 8db of the TH-118 should thereby put it around the output of a pair of SRX728S, no? The relationship should hold even if all are powered "down" to their RMS ratings. with the TH-118 rated at 137db continuous in half space vs 133db continuous for an SRX728S in halfspace (assuming their spec sheet shows full space). So even if we toss the "peak" and "program" ratings the Danley's look crazy loud .

 

I did a comparison:

 

I plugged my 2 TH-minis to an EV CP4000S (bridged) and sent them a signal from 40Hz to 110Hz,

 

then I connected 1 TH-118 to an EV CP4000S (bridged) and sent them a signal from 30Hz to 85Hz

 

 

When I played them both you could not hear the TH-minis

[RoadRanger]

I already did the 3db for the bogus 108db sensitivity in my numbers, above. In comparing a TH-118 driven at RMS vs a SRX-728S driven at RMS I'd expect the power compression to be about the same? I suspect the TH-118 has at least a 5 inch voicecoil, maybe a 6 to handle 1800wrms ? There's quite the breeze across the back of the Danley drivers so I suspect they cool pretty well. I already conceded that the SRX718S will kick the TH-Mini's arse below 50Hz. While you don't get the big low end extension of "normal" horn subs when clustering tapped horns I suspect you do get about the same extension as clustering front loaded subs. The TH-118 and SRX728S are almost identical in the low end -3db point.

[RoadRanger]

When I played them both you could not hear the TH-minis

The TH-118 is 4db more efficient than the TH-Mini at 50Hz and hugely more efficient below that so I would expect your results .

[Unalaska]

First off, put those subs on thier sides so when the fat girls dance on them (and they will) they are much less likely to tip. Second, if the name of the game is to beat a 728 then just buy the 728! I had a pair of them, they were great, went real low and sounded clean doing it (traded them for a 3rd pair of JBL SP128s though). The 728s are nice in the middle since more fat girls can dance on them.

[camplg]

 

First off, put those subs on thier sides so when the fat girls dance on them (and they will) they are much less likely to tip. Second, if the name of the game is to beat a 728 then just buy the 728! I had a pair of them, they were great, went real low and sounded clean doing it (traded them for a 3rd pair of JBL SP128s though). The 728s are nice in the middle since more fat girls can dance on them.

 

 

Considered the SRX, but went with the TH-118 because of it

[RoadRanger]

Considered the SRX, but went with the TH-118 because of it

[camplg]

Haven't even gotten that far. There are far more important issues to resolve first.

 

 

Update:

 

Thanks to eveyone who contributed in this thread. It made me realized I had to get a grasp on electricity and safety. It is a work in progress, so far

 

1) I learned how to connect to a main panel, have all my cables and testers, including testers to check if a cable is wrongly connected. Also got some plugs which are used in some venues here.

 

2) Got new distro boxes and 8 gauge cables, which I know will have to upgrade, but it is wayyy better than what I had before

[Axisplayer]

I may be the only one here who has actually heard one and I give it :thu: .

 

A close friend just bought a pair to replace his 4 older EV subs. He runs the pair with an IT6000. His tops are LA325s and the rig is wonderful. Tops can't begin to keep up. At $6K a pair they need to be wonderful, but I must say they appear to be worth every penny.

[RoadRanger]

Supposedly someone is bridging PL380's into their's . Somehow they tested them with higher peak power and found they start to sound a bit distressed at about 18KW . This is over at that "other" sound forum where anything worth doing is worth overdoing and no speaker goes underpowered .