Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 On Sunday may29th I ran sound for a School Fair. Most of the time we had a DJ, but also a couple of groups The equipment used was: 4 EV ZX5s 2 TH118 EV DC-One 3 EV CP4000S Mackie VLZ3-1202 Numark NS7 EV PL-80c mics The gig was from 10am until 5pm, everything was great except from one minor skip from the NS7. I had to do some tuning to get the levels right on the TH-118s, but after that they sounded amazing, there was bass everywhere!!!. The ZX5s were really clear sounding and PA announcements could be heard all over the place with great clarity [video=vimeo;24446341] Pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I see folks right up to the TH's - no way were they powered over 10%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I was kind of baffled. In that specific picture a duo was singing with pre recorded tracks that were very compressed and had almost no bass at all. But at other times, kids were pretty close to the subs Each Danley was fed from a bridged EV CP4000S. ( I have a Macrotech 9000i, but its in the shop). The amps were going into protection so I had them at about 60% (not as they appear in the pic). The bass was everywhere, but I feel they can go louder. I have to wait for JBL to give me my amp back so that I can push them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted May 31, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 31, 2011 Any reason why you wouldn't put the subs on their sides, clustered? That big clump in the middle doesn't look so nice. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Each Danley was fed from a bridged EV CP4000S. ( I have a Macrotech 9000i, but its in the shop). The amps were going into protection so I had them at about 60% (not as they appear in the pic). The bass was everywhere, but I feel they can go louder. I have to wait for JBL to give me my amp back so that I can push themWere they each on their own circuit? Could it be they were going into protection because of undervoltage? According to the manual they require 40 amps at 230 volts each at full boogie . I suspect you'd have been better off driving them in stereo off one amp - the CP4000S is still rated at 1500w per channel into 4 ohms so that would be plenty I think? That "only" requires 52 amps at 115V at full boogie but only 30 amps at 1/3 power so a 12 gauge extension cord off a 20 amp dedicated breaker might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Any reason why you wouldn't put the subs on their sides, clustered?That big clump in the middle doesn't look so nice.MG My thought as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Each Danley was fed from a bridged EV CP4000S. ( I have a Macrotech 9000i, but its in the shop). The amps were going into protection so I had them at about 60% (not as they appear in the pic). The bass was everywhere, but I feel they can go louder. I have to wait for JBL to give me my amp back so that I can push them MORE power? Silly. Maybe they were going into protect because you were overdriving the speakers causing the voice coils to move out of the primary magnetic field. This would result in the amps seeing the DC resistance +/- any reactive back-EMF which can subtract causing what appears to the amp to be a fault (which it is indeed). (Remember, I design amps AND speakers as my day job) More power will just accelerate the damage you are causing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 My thought as well.Jeez, didn't yous guys see that it's set up for stage diving? Note the floor mat on top . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 MORE power? Silly.What, you don't think a single 18 needs more that 4kw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 What, you don't think a single 18 needs more that 4kw? I've reconed enough speakers in ,my career to know this is beyond silly. Some of us at the manufacturing level just shake our heads at the foolishness out there. What's funny is that these folks will argue with the guys who designed the parts used. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Any reason why you wouldn't put the subs on their sides, clustered?That big clump in the middle doesn't look so nice.MG Yes, I wanted to avoid this, but I couldn`t: http://vimeo.com/24448173 There was no place under the stage to place them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Were they each on their own circuit? No, I only had one 50 amp circuit to power everything Could it be they were going into protection because of undervoltage? According to the manual they require 40 amps at 230 volts each at full boogie . I suspect you'd have been better off driving them in stereo off one amp - the CP4000S is still rated at 1500w per channel into 4 ohms so that would be plenty I think? That "only" requires 52 amps at 115V at full boogie but only 30 amps at 1/3 power so a 12 gauge extension cord off a 20 amp dedicated breaker might work. Probably Yes I should have connected them in stereo off one amp and at 4 ohms they would have gotten 1200W each, and with their 108 spl it should have given me around 141db at 1m for each sub - I am still learning Thanks I also had a Kill-a-watt at the source and maximum amp draw was around 15 amps when playing loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Probably Yes I should have connected them in stereo off one amp and at 4 ohms they would have gotten 1200W each, and with their 108 spl it should have given me around 141db at 1m for each subThat's about the best you are going to do off of one 115V outlet - especially with bass heavy DJ type stuff. I'm curious as to what you had the crossover and high pass filter set for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 That's about the best you are going to do off of one 115V outlet - especially with bass heavy DJ type stuff. I'm curious as to what you had the crossover and high pass filter set for? Subs: 30Hz to 95HzTops: 140 Hz to 16.000Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Subs: 30Hz to 95HzTops: 140 Hz to 16.000HzHmm... maybe I'm sorry I asked. Yous guys have a dislike of 95-140Hz or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hmm... maybe I'm sorry I asked. Yous guys have a dislike of 95-140Hz or ? Nope none at all Just experimenting. I usually cross the tops at 110Hz, One of the 2 DJs suggested I cross them at 140 and I did it and left it like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 "All DJ's should be assumed to be idiots unless proven otherwise" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am still new to this business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Subs: 30Hz to 95HzTops: 140 Hz to 16.000Hz HPF at 35Hz is fine, 24dB/octave, Butterworth alignment.LPF on the subs start at 100Hz, 24dB/octave, LR alignmentTops HPF start at 100Hz, 24dB/octave LR alignmentFor bass heavy music, start with sub gain at +3dB and top gain at -3dB, though with the sensitivity of the subs you might find that +2 and -2dB is a better balance. I would not underlap the crossover points, you have much bigger problems to resolve first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I'm told that many Danley subs are reverse phase from standard. I loaned out my TH-Mini's to someone with SMAART and they found them so . I think those TH118's need to be about 6 feet in front of the mains (or delay the tops by 6ms +-) to time align them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am still new to this businessWhere are you at? Maybe somebody here is local to you and could help you set that stuff up right . I've only heard one TH118 before - folks here wouldn't believe me if I told them one is about the equivalent of two SRX7128S's so I won't say that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted May 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Where are you at? Maybe somebody here is local to you and could help you set that stuff up right . I've only heard one TH118 before - folks here wouldn't believe me if I told them one is about the equivalent of two SRX7128S's so I won't say that . You guys have been veeeeeeryyyyyyyyy helpful. Hopefully I will be able to repay you!! I am in Caracas, Venezuela. I probably own the only 4 Danley subs in Venezuela. Regarding your reference to the SRX728, you are right, on paper 1 th-118 should equal 2 srx728s. That is one of the main reasons I bought the th-118 without listening to it. Now I am trying to get it to work properly and this thread has been extremely helpful!!!! I am very thankful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am in Caracas, Venezuela. I probably own the only 4 Danley subs in Venezuela. They have schools in Venezuela? I kid I kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 I'm told that many Danley subs are reverse phase from standard. I loaned out my TH-Mini's to someone with SMAART and they found them so . I think those TH118's need to be about 6 feet in front of the mains (or delay the tops by 6ms +-) to time align them too. Haven't even gotten that far. There are far more important issues to resolve first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2011 Members Share Posted May 31, 2011 Where are you at? Maybe somebody here is local to you and could help you set that stuff up right . I've only heard one TH118 before - folks here wouldn't believe me if I told them one is about the equivalent of two SRX7128S's so I won't say that . I disagree, maybe one of the 728's but you also have to compare using the large signal model as well as take into consideration the LF response rolloff, not just the area under the curve as they are 2 different metrics of performance. I would expect the TH118 in groups of 4 or more to be a much more impressive system and have a hunch that's what the intended application is probably geared around. The problem with this is that most folks do not look at the entire picture and expect a single cabinet to perform like 1/4 of a cluster of 4 which it will not. Also, I wonder if the spec's of the TH118 are normalized from the data of a cluster of 4? I know there have been measurements of the LabSubs that go back to this predictive method which is completely valid for this application only and is more vaild than using the data from a single sub when the intended application is in multiples only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.