Kick Drum Freaks!

[bigjd]

So as I said in my EV review,my drummer likes the kick drum to go WOOMPH WOOMPH.

I want it to have a little more WHAPP WHAPP added to it.

What are the best freqs in the para on my Presonus 1642 to add to get some more of the beater in it?

I plan on doing this when he's not looking after he gets his IEMs in.( he he he) on the kicks channel strip.

[jlb]

Since you can't position the mic closer to the beater head without your drummer noticing, maybe try a little bump around 4k.

[Rezrover]

I always found the boom in the 70-80Hz area. Of course my drummer doesn't know how to tune his drums either.

 

My Sennheiser 902 had noticeable click compared to the Beta 52, just left it alone.

[twostone]

If you gotta a spare channel just slap a SM57 on the beater side of the kick then hit the phase reverse if need be then blend the whaap of the SM57 with the whomp of the front side mic and you guys have the best of both worlds.

Oh yea drum tuning can make a huge impact. My last drummer like to tune his drums pretty tight for higher sounding pitch since we're dropped down to C.

[Mogwix]

2-4K

[bigjd]

Thanx guys.

Ya Two he'll know I'm plucking with his " tone". He's as bad as a guitar player!

Trying to talk him to a Roland kit so we can use a programed tone.

The drum kit is the biggest part of our rig not counting tops and subs. The rest of us are direct in already.

[twostone]

 

Thanx guys. Ya Two he'll know I'm plucking with his " tone". He's as bad as a guitar player! Trying to talk him to a Roland kit so we can use a programed tone. The drum kit is the biggest part of our rig not counting tops and subs. The rest of us are direct in already.

 

 

So who's running sound you or the drummer?

[agedhorse]

Maybe the drummer will change his tune if he has to load in sound too?

[bigjd]

Well I bumped the 4K and gated it some more with him listening during sound check and he didn't squeal too much. I told him it would be more defined out front and people would get a cleaner sound out of it out front!

Your right Two, I am the sound guy while on stage,so it will be what I say it is. It's my investment too so I have the finale word.

Aged, he is real good about load in and out regarding the PA gear,so no complaints there. He loads his drums as well as the sound gear without any squealing.

I've got used to plug and play set-up and I'd like him to move into that realm.

I like acoustic drums,they have a lot of impact,and his tunings are pretty good. But it's 9 more mics on stage that have to be set-up,so the Roland electronic kits look really appealing as far as set-up time and adjusting gains.

 

Ryans for all your inputs guys!

[bigjd]

Thanx for all your inputs,dumb IPad puts weird words in.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Trying to talk him to a Roland kit so we can use a programed tone.

 

 

uh... 'ok... if you say so.

 

Last time I was around one of those things... we'd have made better money and demand for a repeat performance selling tickets for the trainwreck deluxe that ensued. Picture this: The "money song" at a 70th birthday party for the matriarch of an empire... really big-buck private party (lobster tail horsedouvers type affair)... social event of the season (if you were literally well connected enough to be invited... as a few hundred were). And just as the patriarch is showing a couple hundred of their closest friends his moves... and the birthday gal is really getting into it during "their" SLOWWWW favorite country song that we'd rehearsed every-other night for a couple of weeks to really get it right... The timing couldn't have been worse for what came blaring out of the PA @ about 120dB on the dancefloor, being an endless loop of really distasteful rap... basically an endless string of *%#$*&%#$%@#^#*(*)*(*!!!... and we couldn't shut it off until we disconnected the power cord leading to the electronic drum pile.

 

Oh... and we fired that drummer (who insisted on bringing his electro-drum kit to the gig)... we fired him on the spot... and then went home with our tails between our unpaid legs... lucky we didn't get sued.

 

I have no doubts the disaster was caused by operator error... and wasn't specifically the fault of the machine... but I've never seen an acoustic drum set studdenly start playing backing tracks.

[jlb]

Electric kits are the devil. I got so bent out of shape when Bill Bruford and Neil Peart got into that %^&* back in the 80's.

[twostone]

 

Electric kits are the devil. I got so bent out of shape when Bill Bruford and Neil Peart got into that %^&* back in the 80's.

 

 

Yea but Def Leppard probably sold just as many records as Rush did and probably more then Yes did. Last I seen ole Neil was pimping his new signature DW stuff. When did he switch back to Roland?

[jlb]

I think Neil still uses Roland for his effect triggers. Back in 85' during the Power Windows tour he played half the show on the electric kit(lame as hell). After getting so much crap from his fans he phased it out of the set. Def Leppard on the other hand I can accept considering the physical limitations of the drummer.

[twostone]

 

I think Neil still uses Roland for his effect triggers. Back in 85' during the Power Windows tour he played half the show on the electric kit(lame as hell). After getting so much crap from his fans he phased it out of the set. Def Leppard on the other hand I can accept considering the physical limitations of the drummer.

 

 

It's all good bro e-kits ain't for everybody. With bigid I believe, has a ampless stage wants to go all IEM including drummer, reduce stage wash from the acoustic drums and toss the drum mics so there's no feedback to deal with assuming he still using a PA wedge, and the drummer might sing BU vocals and sometimes the back wall just bounces sound directly right back into the mic, so you might have to combat feedback if he's using a boom style method, and swings it the wrong way, plus the e-kit will lighten up his load, along with speeding up the setup and tear down process was what I gather for wanting a e-kit.

[Consume]

 

 

I play Metal and just feel like this sound cuts through the mix the best - especially with double bass, and you're (as the drummer) not fighting the bass player in the same frequency range.

 

You have to go up about 1 minute into this to get past this guy talking, but this is the kick drum sound that I like for myself. I like a really good mallet slap - but I HATE that "clicking" sound and I don't like the "Whoom" sound either... I never did like that. A lot of the local soundmen mix that way - and they mix every band to have that sound.

[KellyMainEvent]

it's odd, but i don't like "click" in the kick sound, but a TINY bit of 6k added sounds great to me.

[Rezrover]

 

it's odd, but i don't like "click" in the kick sound, but a TINY bit of 6k added sounds great to me.

 

 

What would you call it? "Above click"?

[bigjd]

Twostone pretty much nailed it.

I want a constant to work with.I've just come from doing a bunch of weekends right in a row and the only variable from venue to venue set up wise is the drum kit and micing it to get the best from place to place.

My guitar and the other guitarist are direct in so it's plug and play. The bass is a small TNT 115 with a direct out on it that works well,not so very loud.

Our drummer plays well ,it's just looking at set up and tear down as well as getting a good mix that is very consistent from room to room.

With the 1642 you set up your voc mics and your direct ins save it and write it to the venue,done. No hassle next time your there,except the drums.

That's the only reasons we are looking at that option,consitent overall sound and set up tear down.

No slam on acoustic drums,and I really miss my 4x12 on stage blowing my pants legs around, I like it loud!

I just have a business part of me that says this is the best way to streamline and please a lot of people as well as reducing my headache time so I can enjoy playing more.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

That's the only reasons we are looking at that option,consitent overall sound and set up tear down. No slam on acoustic drums,and I really miss my 4x12 on stage blowing my pants legs around, I like it loud! I just have a business part of me that says this is the best way to streamline and please a lot of people as well as reducing my headache time so I can enjoy playing more.

 

Depending on how elaborate an acoustic trap kit is vs. the e-drum kit to replace it... IME (which admitted is extremely limited)... you couldn't convince me there's any streamline advantage to the e-drum kit... because:

 

1) Admittedly, the kick drum sound was over-all pretty good... pretty much through any speaker... but especially the snare and cymbals sounds left a lot to be desired... maybe more tweaking was needed... but it just didn't seem like there's an equitable synthed replacement for the snare & cymbals yet.

 

2) Set-up of the e-drums seemed to take A LOT LONGER.

 

3) We commonly play fairly small private affairs, and commonly don't mic the drums or run any wedge monitors... and if we do, it's a couple mics on the drums and a couple of wedges up-front and one for the drummer... doing vocal duty only. With the e-drums... there was gobs more stuff to plug-in than we're commonly used to and the seeming requirement for much more substancial drum monitors than we'd generally consider with acoustic drums.

 

4) The e-drum kit with it's fixed rack consumed "more than we're used to" chunk of real estate as compared to how far an acoustic trap kit can be pruned down to and still get the job done on a postage-stamp sized stage... being a common stage size for us.

 

I dunno... I suppose working with an e-drum kit for awhile, maybe some stuff could be figured out to realize some streamlining... or maybe in different applications it's just the ticket... I dunno...

[bigjd]

Drummers present acoustic kit is,

Kick,floor,4 toms,snare,high hat,SPDs,and a {censored} loud of cymbals all mounted on a Pearl rack system so it takes up a huge amount of real-estate on the stage and requires a truck of it's own for transport.

It's a gig kit,I'm just glad he doesn't use a double kick.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Drummers present acoustic kit is, Kick,floor,4 toms,snare,high hat,SPDs,and a {censored} loud of cymbals all mounted on a Pearl rack system so it takes up a huge amount of real-estate on the stage and requires a truck of it's own for transport. It's a gig kit,I'm just glad he doesn't use a double kick.

 

I can see the attraction of the e-kit for your situation... most definately.

[Mogwix]

I hate playing e-kits and I hate mixing them. They're a pain in the ass and they sound terrible. Every time I mix bands with e-kits (and modellers), they're telling me that it's helped them keep their stage volume down and what-have-you... but then they want their guitars and drums coming through the monitors at 140dB. It makes no sense.

 

Peart still has the e-kit part of his set, but he only plays it during his drum solo.

[fdew]

[quote=bigjd;44399701

I like acoustic drums,they have a lot of impact,and his tunings are pretty good. But it's 9 more mics on stage that have to be set-up,so the Roland electronic kits look really appealing as far as set-up time and adjusting gains.

 

Ryans for all your inputs guys!

 

I attended a worship leader seminar last year. They had a breakout session on micing drums. It sounded like fun, although I was sure they would tell me I needed a whole set of mics. It was put on by two pro drummers and a recording engineer.

 

They had a nice kit, and a good sound system. The idea was to show us a setup, play it, record it, and play it back for us so we could hear exactly what was going on.

 

They started out by telling us that if the kit is not in tune don't mic it! Then they demoed tuning the kit so we would know what it takes. Once in tune they told us that for live work with a group we needed one to 4 mics tops! The demo went like this.

 

One mic over the drummers left shoulder. It get's what he hears. Second mic in front of the kick. 3rd high over the toms. 4th mic in the kick.

 

They said if you don't like the sound go up front and listen if it is good up front then move a mic. Repeat until it sounds good.

 

I was quite surprised. We tried it and we are quite happy with two mics.

 

Frank

[jgthatsme]

I played an e-kit for about a dozen years or so and NEVER had any issues. I played through some very large PAs with it and used it in the studio, and there was never anything but compliments and praise from sound men, recording engineers, and audience members, and clients...and other musicians too. I used DDrum, but this was back when DDrum was owned by Clavia in Sweden which was loooong before Clavia chose to focus on the Nord/Lead keyboards and sold the DDrum electronics unit to Armadillo...and then Armadillo chose to make the DDrum name an acoustic drumline and totally let the DDrum electronics go to hell.

 

The Roland stuff is complete {censored}. And I don't mean that in the good sense as in "it's the {censored}." I mean it's a big pile of tremendously overpriced, overhyped dung. It has computer generated sounds instead of real drum samples. It has way too many audio effects which drummers shouldn't be allowed to touch. It's a veritable toy that should be on the shelves at K-Mart, Wal-Mart, and Sam's Club instead of a professional level music store. The DDrum 3 gear made back in the early to mid-90s would smoke anything out there today except perhaps for the new offerings from 2Box which have yet to hit the USA.

 

Neil Peart still uses electronics in his live setup but I don't think he's used it for recording on RUSH's last couple albums. He did not play a single song on his electric kit on their Time Machine tour (2010 and 2011 dates), but that could change when they tour in 2012. He did, however, incorporate his electronic kit into a segment of his drum solo. As for his actual electronic kit, he has a modified DW/Roland setup. DW made him some custom shells to match the shells of his acoustic kit. DW has done this for him at least since their comback in 2001/2002 with Vapor Trails, and they may have done it for him back in 1995/1996 on their Test for Echo release/tour. The electronics within the shells are Roland. The cymbal pads are Roland. I don't think he's using any Roland module. His samples (I believe) are stored on some sort of Akai sampler. Back in the 80s, his first electronics were Simmons and then he switched to DDrum pads. When Clavia started leaning more heavily towards keyboards and waivering on e-drum support, he switched to Roland.