Proof You Can Still Make Big Money in Music

[Anderton]

An architecture sits down to design a house. He spends a couple of days banging out the general idea and then a few more weeks re-writing and tweaking minor things here and there. Finally after months of preparation, the foundation is laid, walls go up, electrical and plumbing lines are put in, then the sheetrock. Painters come in and everything is brand new, shiny, and beautiful.

 

The buyer hires an overpaid interior designer who puts up art, places the furniture, and buys a chandelier.

 

The new buyers walk in, fall in love with the place, tell all their friends what a fantastic job their "designer" did and completely forget the architect who built the damn thing in the first place. DJ`ing in a nutshell...

 

100% true, if you don't understand DJing at all, or haven't updated your idea of what DJing is since 1995

 

I think a more appropriate analogy is an architect gives you a bunch of blueprints from 1,000 cool houses, including ones built in the 50s to super-modern ones built last year. The architect worked hard on those blueprints, but they're not really organized so you have to sort through them to find elements of the different blueprints that would work together. The foundation guys bring a concrete truck, and the wood people drop off a variety of really nice wood that was finished beautifully by woods craftspeople, but also some bricks and quality vinyl siding if you'd rather use that. The guys from Home Depot bring 300 different paint cans with different colors (all made and mixed by someone else, of course) so you can choose the one you want. Unfortunately, though, you hate the windows so you make your own, and after thinking about it for a bit, you decide it's also better to mix your own paint because none of the 300 colors really do it for you.

 

Then they all leave, and it's up to you to build a house from all these elements. Hopefully you choose stuff that goes together, and you measure properly so that one wall doesn't come up a foot short compared to another wall...oh, and when you're done, thousands of people have to all agree that you put together a really great house, so much so that others are willing to pay admission to see the house you put together.

 

There seem to be four main arguments here.

 

1. They're not writing songs. Well, neither did John Coltrane. But there are recognizable EDM songs, and more all the time (see later).

2. There aren't harmonies or melodies. Not true, but it depends on the artist. A headbanger like Carl Cox is more into rhythms and samples, whereas some of the more pop-oriented musicians - uh, I mean, DJs - build what they do around vocalists.

3. EDM doesn't hold up under repeated listening. Well, to me a good set is much more like a movie, and just like I'll watch a movie I like every now and then, it's the same thing with a really good trance (or whatever) set. That said, there are some songs that have emerged that I've played over and over again, like some of BT's tracks and some cuts off of compilations. However, EDM is definitely not for those with short attention spans; it's not calibrated in 2-4 minute pop statements. In fact, you usually have to listen for at least a minute before anything interesting happens with music that's divorced from a longer set, because the music has long lead-ins and lead-outs to allow beatmatching and creating seamless transitions. A lot of "songs" are in the 7-12 minute range, and longer.

4. Anybody can do it, they're just button pushers. This is the one that really deserves the . That's legitimate if to be consistent, you also say anyone can play drums, all you have to do is hit things with sticks...and to play flute, you just blow into it and run your fingers over the holes. Easy peasy!

 

If anyone thinks DJs use only music made by other people, you probably think Eisenhower is still president. Most of the producer DJs these days create their own riffs and their own beats. The only thing they don't create is the software that allows them to do that...well except for the guys who invented Ableton Live, because no software could do what they wanted for live performance.

 

Anyway, can any of the people dissing DJs as mere "button-pushers" do this...I haven't yet found the video where the guy created a song on the spot, but this will do for "Oh yeah, if it takes no skill, let me see you try it..."

 

 

Now, I didn't take the time to search out "favorite" songs of mine, this is just stuff I found after looking for a bit on YouTube. While songs aren't AABA in the conventional sense, pairing vocalists with instrumental passages and constant variations on hooks is one option...you don't have to like it any more than I have to like Aerosmith, but you can't deny that it takes talent to put something like this together.

 

 

Same with this...and nothing really happens until about 2 minutes into it. Analyze the song structure, and how the different elements flow. Just because it's not a conventional song structure doesn't mean it can't tell a story.

 

 

Ultimately, I don't care whether anyone likes any of this or not, or "gets" any of it or not. What I do care about is a generation of older musicians who are stuck in the past, and instead of embracing the new generation coming up that loves music, and passing the torch of what we know to what they do, would prefer to just dismiss them as talentless hacks. They're more creative, more open-minded, make more money, and have more fans for a reason. They know something about music that's rooted in ancient tribal/hypnotic rituals, yet overlay an electronic veneer that could only happen now.

 

I can't help it if I find it every bit as riveting as Miles Davis, Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Led Zeppelin, the Sex Pistols, and Bach. And I bet if Miles Davis was alive now, he'd be making a truly wicked hybrid of jazz, funk, and EDM, He'd show both the kids and the dinosaurs a thing or two...

 

[electrow]

1

 

I can't help it if I find it every bit as riveting as Miles Davis, Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Led Zeppelin, the Sex Pistols, and Bach. And I bet if Miles Davis was alive now, he'd be making a truly wicked hybrid of jazz, funk, and EDM, He'd show both the kids and the dinosaurs a thing or two...

 

Your right about Miles Davis. In fact when he came out with On The Corner, a lot of his fans thought it was crap.

....."It was initially dubbed “repetitious crap” and “an insult to the intellect of the people.”**

 

I remember an interview at the time, asking him what his musical approach was and he said he was simply a "synthesizer" of various genres. He paid a lot of attention to what was popular. These days On the Corner is consider foundation music for a lot of modern music:

 

"....in the words of noted business writer, the late Oren Harari, Miles had successfully “jumped the curve.” He authoritatively changed trajectory by bridging jazz with funk and R&B jams, paving the highway now driven by the hip hop and EDM formats and deejay culture...."**

 

**taken from: http://masters-of-innovation.com/201...y-served-cold/

 

Miles hated using the term Jazz to describe his music, to him it was just that - music.......

[Ernest Buckley]

100% true, if you don't understand DJing at all, or haven't updated your idea of what DJing is since 1995

 

 

 

Craig,

 

Not once in this thread did I say I could do what a DJ does... and this guy in the NI video is surely one in a million. Most DJs are not doing this. I actually enjoy the EDM genre and some guys like BT are doing some interesting things. But I think the part that irritates me about this thread is that unless you`re a band thats been around 20+ years or a DJ, you`re not really making much $$$ in music these days. I was just watching a video in which Roger Waters was discussing the current situation with Spotify and other streaming services... I have to find it... he says he feels sorry for young persons today trying to make a living doing music.

 

Most artists are not making much money. Its pathetic that a guy who plays other peoples ideas in a very clever manner is making a killing while the songwriters are living hand to mouth. This is not a DJs fault, I blame it on the general publics ignorance and greed.

[AlamoJoe]

 

Craig,

 

Not once in this thread did I say I could do what a DJ does... and this guy in the NI video is surely one in a million. Most DJs are not doing this. I actually enjoy the EDM genre and some guys like BT are doing some interesting things. But I think the part that irritates me about this thread is that unless you`re a band thats been around 20+ years or a DJ, you`re not really making much $$$ in music these days. I was just watching a video in which Roger Waters was discussing the current situation with Spotify and other streaming services... I have to find it... he says he feels sorry for young persons today trying to make a living doing music.

 

Most artists are not making much money. Its pathetic that a guy who plays other peoples ideas in a very clever manner is making a killing while the songwriters are living hand to mouth. This is not a DJs fault, I blame it on the general publics ignorance and greed.

The unfairness you seem to express is probably similar to how the great blues players felt when the bands in the 1960's took their riffs and cadences and made fortunes after rocking them up a bit.

 

A lot of blacksmiths were put out of work with the advent of the automobile. Progress is a merciless master. Music is constantly evolving. If you wish to make a living at it, it is up to the individual artist to find his/her audience. Evolve or die is the first law of the jungle. There is still an audience for traditional songwriting, it's just a smaller one. It's not a shame...It's just the way things are. Maybe it's a shame for old goats like you and I, but our time is past.We can celebrate our beloved Old School stuff 'till they put us in the ground. We can try to impart some wisdom, turn some young folks on to the stuff we treasure and hope they glimpse a bit of the magic that captivated us.

 

But we gonna get nowhere with 'em trashing the stuff they dig.

 

 

 

[Anderton]

 

Craig,

 

Not once in this thread did I say I could do what a DJ does...

 

Correct. By "here," I meant this thread in general, and more specifically, idunno who seems to think these are all people who just push a button and stand back.

 

"...and this guy in the NI video is surely one in a million. Most DJs are not doing this.

 

Definitely not one in a million, and more dexterity than most. But he's nowhere near as rare as you think nor the first, search on David Fingers Haynes. Others are more proficient at fader-slamming (my specialty ), turntables, or other electronically-based skills. A 60-year-old lady was talking to me today. Granted she has a baseline that's already pretty cool, but she had just seen a really good turntable player and was pretty much speechless.

 

Most artists are not making much money. Its pathetic that a guy who plays other peoples ideas in a very clever manner is making a killing while the songwriters are living hand to mouth. This is not a DJs fault, I blame it on the general publics ignorance and greed.

 

Think about the Big Phenomena for a second...Elvis Presley combined "race" music and "hillbilly" music, upsetting purists from both camps and resonating with millions. Bob Dylan hit it big when he combined folk and electricity. The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin synthesized blues with pop, and the Beatles took the synthesis angle to an extreme.

 

DJs are already starting to think more in terms of songs and adding vocals. It's only a matter of time before a DJ enlists a killer songwriter, a tremendous vocalist, and creates a breakthrough that pushes all buttons. But it's not going to be the people sitting on the sidelines and wringing their hands who will make it happen.

 

[Anderton]

We can try to impart some wisdom, turn some young folks on to the stuff we treasure and hope they glimpse a bit of the magic that captivated us.

 

But we gonna get nowhere with 'em trashing the stuff they dig.

 

You are sooooo effing right. Fortunately, those "young folks" are hungry for what we can share. The problem is that too many people from the old school aren't open-minded enough to engage in a conversation.

 

After attending the TEC Awards, I was so upset I wrote quite a scathing letter about how it was rapidly becoming a parody of the days when music was bold and daring. Where was the category for Best DJ Controller? Or best Control Surface? Is music gear only mic preamps and tubes? Why bring out the same dinosaurs when we should be passing the torch to the next generation, encouraging them, and setting an example of how you can always keep growing and expanding?

 

When I was first getting involved with DJs I was acutely aware of the prejudice rockers had against them. But it was never reciprocated. I was always welcome to be a part of what they did and accepted for who I am. I in turned learned A HELL OF A LOT from them that I never learned from my contemporaries.

 

The song I'm working on now is almost a swampy, bluesy thing. The lead instrument is harmonica, and the song is driven by twin acoustic guitars (Gibson J-45 and one of the new Gibson HP acoustics). And there are acoustic drums...

 

...but with a house loop groove, a super-wicked guitar sample from a guitarist friend of mine, a synth bass so distorted even Trent Reznor might object, an electronic percussion loop, and vocals that are...uh..."unique." I loved recording it and I'm going to love mixing it, but it would never have existed if I hadn't learned from people a third my age who showed me things to do with music I had never found before.

[AlamoJoe]

 

You are sooooo effing right. Fortunately, those "young folks" are hungry for what we can share. The problem is that too many people from the old school aren't open-minded enough to engage in a conversation.

 

After attending the TEC Awards, I was so upset I wrote quite a scathing letter about how it was rapidly becoming a parody of the days when music was bold and daring. Where was the category for Best DJ Controller? Or best Control Surface? Is music gear only mic preamps and tubes? Why bring out the same dinosaurs when we should be passing the torch to the next generation, encouraging them, and setting an example of how you can always keep growing and expanding?

 

When I was first getting involved with DJs I was acutely aware of the prejudice rockers had against them. But it was never reciprocated. I was always welcome to be a part of what they did and accepted for who I am. I in turned learned A HELL OF A LOT from them that I never learned from my contemporaries.

 

The song I'm working on now is almost a swampy, bluesy thing. The lead instrument is harmonica, and the song is driven by twin acoustic guitars (Gibson J-45 and one of the new Gibson HP acoustics). And there are acoustic drums...

 

...but with a house loop groove, a super-wicked guitar sample from a guitarist friend of mine, a synth bass so distorted even Trent Reznor might object, an electronic percussion loop, and vocals that are...uh..."unique." I loved recording it and I'm going to love mixing it, but it would never have existed if I hadn't learned from people a third my age who showed me things to do with music I had never found before.

 

 

1} I hope we (The Community) here get to hear this new song relatively soon. Given the lengthy gestation period your works seem to employ.

2] You should not feel obligated to put "Young Folks" in parentheses. You're a geezer like a lot of us. Present company included. Lol.

 

 

[RockViolin]

"

Music has been changing since artists started using tape loops back in the 60's. The Beatles, Hendrix, I could go on.

 

 

 

 

Heck, it's been changing since even way before that...like way back into the 50's and 40's and junk.

 

[RockViolin]

 

 

But we gonna get nowhere with 'em trashing the stuff they dig.

 

 

 

And that, at least, cuts both ways. Perhaps those of us that have spent a large chunk of a lifetime mastering instruments that have been around for hundreds of years could be spared being told that our instruments and their waveforms are now passé because EDM has arrived. (That's mostly what I've heard from EDMers.) Well, I'm not that impressed and I'll wager that Beethoven's ghost isn't either.

 

And I'm one of the open-minded guys that can crossover, btw.

[Anderton]

 

And that, at least, cuts both ways. Perhaps those of us that have spent a large chunk of a lifetime mastering instruments that have been around for hundreds of years could be spared being told that our instruments and they're waveforms are now passé because EDM has arrived. (That's mostly what I've heard from EDMers.)

 

You're hanging out with the wrong crowd

 

[Anderton]

1} I hope we (The Community) here get to hear this new song relatively soon. Given the lengthy gestation period your works seem to employ.

 

When I have a rough mix I'll put it up with an unlisted link and see if the SSS Production Squad can help out

 

BTW the Neo- album is done, but I'm having to re-do the videos for the songs because the music is mastered now. Also, some of the songs were shortened so I have to re-cut some of the videos. When the videos are done, I'll do a major makeover of my YouTube channel and also, that will be the time to launch the craiganderton.com web site I've been building.

 

[RockViolin]

 

You're hanging out with the wrong crowd

 

I don't hang out with crowds.

 

Those were words I read here.

 

And at another site, much the same.

 

And how on earth did I get that version of "their" there? AAaagh! Must be that suffocating trip to the ER this week for asthma.

[AlamoJoe]

Asthma is a hell of an affliction. I had it when I was a kid. I hope you're feeling better now!

[RockViolin]

Hadn't had any problem since the mid 90's. There were signs of trouble, that seemed to clear up after a couple cups o' Joe. Then last Monday the coffee didn't work anymore. No place was open that had more than natural remedies, they didn't help at that point, and after 12+ hours with nothing more than 10% of a breath, I caved. Not out of the woods. My hands are still shaking. I guess it's the rag weed-really bad this year. I have a rescue inhaler now. I hate steroids-but, I can breathe better now. Beats dyin anyway. Thanks AlamoeJoe!

[Danhedonia]

Just remember, if you don't like something and don't understand it, then it's wrong and ought to be done away with. GET OFF MY LAWN. If you don't like EDM, there's great news: you can stay home and feel superior, while tons of other people go out and enjoy it. Just remember, all great music comes from a sense of superiority and self-righteousness of opinion.

 

As for 'where the money went,' I've tried to explain for years that as a pure economic object, prerecorded music is oversupplied. It has less to do with Spotify, Clear Channel, Napster, iTunes, or the devil and the deep blue sea than this simple bit:

 

The middle class got poorer, at roughly the same time that the catalog of available music got enormous, and had to compete with other things for disposable dollars.

 

In 1975, middle class families had a 'stereo,' and a TV. Look at what families have now:

* Computers, and all the content to make them relevant

* Mobile communications devices and a lot of content to make them relevant

* Many content playback devices. Flavors, platforms, and form factors abound. Don't forget the content to make them relevant.

* Cable TV. Wow, you need a LOT of content to make 300+ channels useful!

 

We have a content glut.

 

 

[RockViolin]

My what a brave new world.

 

Yep. Well, when the lights go out, and they probably will, don't be surprised by the deafening silence.

 

And remember that the woman shaped box with the pointy chunk of steel coming out one end that folks dig potatoes with...those that actually knew what to do with it, well, horse and buggy...

 

Oh me of little faith.

[Anderton]

The middle class got poorer, at roughly the same time that the catalog of available music got enormous, and had to compete with other things for disposable dollars.

 

In 1975, middle class families had a 'stereo,' and a TV. Look at what families have now:

* Computers, and all the content to make them relevant

* Mobile communications devices and a lot of content to make them relevant

* Many content playback devices. Flavors, platforms, and form factors abound. Don't forget the content to make them relevant.

* Cable TV. Wow, you need a LOT of content to make 300+ channels useful!

 

We have a content glut.

 

By and large I agree, but I'd add a few other twists.

 

1. Not only do we have a content glut, but the "filters" that used to exist (record companies, A&R people, in-store play) to skim off the cream no longer have the same presence. So while there's more music than ever, it's harder to find music that might interest you. "Recommendations" from YouTube and such only point you in the directions you've already been, not the ones where you want to go. For example, if all you listened to was rock music from the 80s, YouTube isn't going to say "Hey, check out this cool soca music." Nor is there a "record store" you can walk into where you hear something new and different playing, think "Hey, I have no idea what that is but it's cool, think I'll buy it." Furthermore, online stations that have "channels" again push you into a specific listening box. I see the value in that, but it's not equally easy to get pushed outside that box.

 

2. More people are listening to more music than ever before, so you'd think musicians would be doing well...right? But the streaming model puts very little money into the musician's hands. I'm sure you've read all those stories about people who've received something like $46.12 for a million streams.

 

3. Songwriters are getting hit the hardest, and songwriting is a real art. The "new models" of music distribution don't take songwriters into account the way the old model did.

 

 

 

[Danhedonia]

"2. More people are listening to more music than ever before"

 

I think I disagree with this. In fact, one observation I would make is that American culture has had a large shift from fandom (and hero-worship) to vanity and narcissism. There's more supply, but I am wondering if kids sit down to listen to music for x hours a day, the way they once did?

 

 

[Ernest Buckley]

I gave up on the singer-songwriter career around 8 years ago. I realized that the music I was writing had no audience and if it does, I have not found it yet. So I started to focus more on sacred composition and synthesis... My stuff these days combines the sacred and the synthesis with the traditional rock elements. I don`t consider myself "old" as you eluded to... I`m 43 but I stay current with whats on the radio through my kids and my wife. I try to listen because I want to stay current but I also like some of the stuff.

 

I hear what you`re saying... evolve or die for sure. As I get older, my two concerns are 1) staying relevant and 2) continuing to improve/expand my knowledge. #2 has a lot to do with #1...

[Ernest Buckley]

Good points all around Craig but the last point about a DJ collaborating with a "killer songwriter" and "tremendous vocalist" is what I`ve been saying... a DJ still needs to rely on a lot of extras before I can call them "musicians".

 

At the end of the day, this is all semantics. People enjoy all types of music and do not care how its made. Its about creating a uplifting feeling or inspiration... thats all that really matters. I still feel the people who create the ideas should have some compensation...