Members Mikoo69 Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 I play guitar in a loud rock band and use a 1965 Fender Deluxe Reverb through a 4x12 w/ Celestion Blues. The amp is rated at 22 watts The amp sounds amazing but is just barely loud enough to be heard over the band. I was thinking of moving up to a 50 watt amp, but I really love the sound of the Deluxe. Last night I tried hooking up my singer's powered monitor (JBL PRX612M) to a Shure SM57 in front of the cab. I put the monitor on the other side of the drummer and got it to a volume equal to my amp on the opposite side. This really helped the spread of my guitar on the stage, and gave me more than enough volume on tap to play any gig. Has anyone done this before? I guess it's like a personal monitor/PA for just the guitar. I am thinking about investing in a powered speaker so I can incorporate this into my setup, instead of switching to a high powered amp. Thoughts? If so, any recommendations on a great powered monitor for electric guitar (fuzzed out, overdriven, psychedelic hard rock). The PRX612M sounded great, but had way more volume than I would probably need, and is a bit expensive, though I'm willing to spend the money on the best sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Will your amp drive an extension speaker? Alternatively, how about a second amp for the other side driven off the slave out (assuming there is one) or split at the first amp's input (with appropriate hi Z splitter)? Both would be less expensive and possible even better sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sbrett Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 I used a few 18 watt amps for a long time, and my trick was to always just tilt the amp up towards me. Occasionally I'd put the amp in front of me and tilt it up with the back facing the audience. Never had a problem hearing anything. Of course if you are relying on your guitar amp to be the main source of sound (i.e. you aren't putting a mic on your amp and running it through a P.A.) then putting it in front of you probably won't work. I've also had some success at tilting the amp up and facing it towards the back wall. Sometimes the reflections across the wall will spread around the stage...depends on the stage setup, wall material, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted December 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 i am interested in this for situations where they wont run my guitar through the PA, which is quite often these days as the venues we play are relatively small. they'll just put vocals and kick through the PA and then the audience will tell me i could be a bit louder, however im already as loud as my amp will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Don't pus out. 100W no master volume JCM800 full stack. The sound guys will loooooove you. Seriously, what about a 50w version of your amp? I agree with tilting it back as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Cheapest thing to do is elevate your cab closer to ear level. Find an unloaded cab(weighs less, looks like a stack) if you don't want to haul a table or are short of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Do you mic your amp? Do you have stage monitors? If so, send guitar to your monitor. That is the usual way of doing it. If your guys don't want you in the house mix, they can turn you down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Will your amp drive an extension speaker? Alternatively, how about a second amp for the other side driven off the slave out (assuming there is one) or split at the first amp's input (with appropriate hi Z splitter)? Both would be less expensive and possible even better sounding. IIRC it's gotta extension jack on it if it's the 65 reissued model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members formula428 Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not saying you do this, but I'm still surprised by the amount of people who have a twin, stand 3 feet in front of it, and it's sitting on the floor. Maybe they think that their ears are located on their ankles? Sometimes, the amp isn't even facing them (and they don't have a wedge nor do they use IEMs). Elevate the amp. You have the amp mic'd and going thru your wedge? How about switching to IEMs? Also, how does your band feel about you spreading your guitar across the stage? I know I'd be pissed. Also, that could start a volume war on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caspar Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Just get rid of the 4x12 and mic up the DR alone. Turn it down to where it sounds the best and send it to your monitor and the mains. This is great for the FOH sound (and kind to your band mates ) even in really small bars and pubs. Which leads to another question; Are drums designed to be as loud as a halfstack or is it the halfstack that is designed to keep up with the drums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Try a QSC K10 before you make a decision. Might be a better monitor for a guitar player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 i am interested in this for situations where they wont run my guitar through the PA, which is quite often these days as the venues we play are relatively small. they'll just put vocals and kick through the PA and then the audience will tell me i could be a bit louder, however im already as loud as my amp will go. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are you guys running your own sound (PA)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarjrh Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 Just get rid of the 4x12 and mic up the DR alone. Turn it down to where it sounds the best and send it to your monitor and the mains. This is great for the FOH sound (and kind to your band mates ) even in really small bars and pubs. This. Always mike your cabinet. Ditch the 4x12. Use a tilt stand. And tell your bandmates to turn down! If you can't hear yourself with a cranked Deluxe, your stage volume is too dang loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 "Ditch the 4x12. Use a tilt stand. And tell your bandmates to turn down! If you can't hear yourself with a cranked Deluxe, your stage volume is too dang loud!" I hate to judge, but this was my first thought as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 i am interested in this for situations where they wont run my guitar through the PA, which is quite often these days as the venues we play are relatively small. they'll just put vocals and kick through the PA and then the audience will tell me i could be a bit louder, however im already as loud as my amp will go. I'm not sure who "they" are. Do you mean your bandmates won't put guitar through the PA or the club soundtech won't put guitar through the PA? By your description the main problem is that the audience can't hear you. That means you need more stage volume/coverage or you need to mic the amp. If micing isn't an option then an extension cab could work - assuming the ohms are right, and coverage is the main issue. It should sound and look better as well. Personally I might ditch the 4 x 12 cab and try two Fender Deluxes. Then I'd have amp redundancy and a much smaller vehicle pack and stage footprint. I mean, if the places you play are sometimes small the stages probably are too. I've used those amps and they're nice for that blues vein stuff, and it's true that if the band is quite loud they can get buried. I guess you guys must be hitting it pretty hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 I'm not sure who "they" are. Do you mean your bandmates won't put guitar through the PA or the club soundtech won't put guitar through the PA? Or maybe you're too loud as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carlstretch Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 As a guitarist,.. IME,... If you have a Blackface Deluxe Reverb thru a 4x12 cabinet and it's not loud enough,... Well then you need to take your amp to a repair guy and get it fixed. I have an 18W head and a 12W head and they are way too loud to use at full blast. My JTM45 is only 30W and it is so loud that I can't begin to explain what happens in my practice room to everything on shelves and hanging on the wall. Hell,.... I can't even crank my 5W Tweed Champ at practice,.. it's just too loud. So here are some suggestions,... From a guitarist first and sound guy second. 1) If you need to spread the sound around,.. Use an open back cabinet. 4x12's are incredibly directional. 2) Go buy a Sennheiser e609 or something like it,.. a mic cable and tell the sound guy to hook it up. How hard is that? Just drop it in front of a speaker and give the end to the sound guy and say "Plug this in". If it needs to be heard,.. the sound guy can push a fader,... if not,.. he can leave it alone. 3) Do you not get your own monitor when you play live?? If so,.. just have the sound guy put some guitar in your monitor,... Because you put a mic in front of it !!!!! 4) Your Deluxe Reverb is broken. Go get it fixed. I'm not trying to be a jerk but seriously,... You should have this figured out before you start playing gigs. If you like the sound of your amp but at a useable volume,.. get a Master Volume installed on an amp. That way it sounds really good and you can mic it. I play thru my JTM45 at live gigs thru a 4x12 cabinet with only 2 speakers in it. Just to give you an idea,.. I use a Weber MASS attenuator between the amp and cab and also,.. I use a Plexiglass shield in front of the cab. And this is with the Master Volume at 50%. The PA will make your amp sound much better to the audience than your amp will. If you still can't hear your amp,.. Go buy some In Ear Monitors. You don't need to be adding more stage volume with a powered speaker. I can't imagine the sound levels you must have on stage. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted December 14, 2011 Members Share Posted December 14, 2011 I'm on the side of.. If you are at full volume and can't hear the guitar with that setup something is broken or your band is wayyyyy to {censored}ing loud. Chances are that MORE guitar volume isn't what's needed, just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sirfun Posted December 15, 2011 Members Share Posted December 15, 2011 do what sounds/feels best there is nothing wrong with what you originally asked about doing,but it would be more practical just to mike up the amp (or 4/12)bleed a little into monitors if needed and mix level in FOH. i use a tweed deluxe 5&1/2 feet off the stageit fires right at my head and i aint changing ampsif someone on the other side of the stage wants to hear it louder we bleed a little more into the monitorit sounds GREAT coming through the mains stage volume is great too but also is harder to mixi occasionally rock a bassman or twin or super (tilted back,I'm 6ft5) outdoors or whatever but read the first line again !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 15, 2011 Members Share Posted December 15, 2011 ditto. A Deluxe cranked up is pretty loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted December 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 15, 2011 You could get a SF Bassman head - those kill into a 4x12. There is something special about a good 4x12 - not necessarly louder, but fuller and better in every way than a single 12 in a combo. Mic'ing the 12" in the combo and putting it in the monitors is not going to sound even close to the same/as good onstage. At best, it's a weak approximation of what's coming out of the amp. If you need more spread on stage, maybe look at 2 2x12" cabs and run one on each side? MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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