Members Marko Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 If it adds some punch (or otherwise makes it sound better) via the distortion created, isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 If the system can handle it without damage, it is an effect. If the system can't handle it without damage, it is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 If the system can handle it without damage, it is an effect. If the system can't handle it without damage, it is a problem. Nicey put. Having enough rig for the gig falls into this description too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Post the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hard on speakers primarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 At work, can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I remeber rat saying you wouldn't be able to break anything on the board, so clipping the pre should be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I remeber rat saying you wouldn't be able to break anything on the board, so clipping the pre should be ok. Except for the speakers. Why are beginners fixated on this stuff. IMO, you need to spend a whole lot more time understanding the basics before worrying about an advanced technique of debateable merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Except for the speakers. Well, you're not gonna break the speakers if you just turn the fader down. I've done this - it works like a really crude limiter. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes it's stupid. More often than not, IME, that kind of limiting makes things sound more mushy than punchy, especially . If I had to choose between this and a half-way decent comp, I'd pick the comp. One of the things you gotta remember about Dave Rat's tricks is that he's working with top-level gear, crew, and talent and that tricks that work in his world don't necessarily work at lower levels or are so subtle as to be pointless. Also, FWIW, without watching the video, I'd guess that he's talking about only light clipping, not total obliteration. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 And the resources to blow something up and still be able to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know that Dave Rat video you've mentioned, and as I recall, he specifically says you can use this technique on a "good" analogue board,,not just any analogue board, and not on a digital board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks gentlemen. I'm not going to do it, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Except for the speakers.Why are beginners fixated on this stuff. IMO, you need to spend a whole lot more time understanding the basics before worrying about an advanced technique of debateable merit. His question was will this hurt the preamp. Dave rat said it would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 His question was will this hurt the preamp. Dave rat said it would not. Which is exacty the question I answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Which is exacty the question I answered. Ok. I thought your comment was aimed more toward me because of the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok. I thought your comment was aimed more toward me because of the quote. Well, it was because of your comment, but still answered the question and added much needed missing information so he did not assume it was all a-ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 why is it bad for the speakers? (legitimate question) extra harmonics? If you're overloading the preamp but sending it through your big fader resistor I thought it would bring the voltage back somewhere close to normal. It would act like a bad compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 why is it bad for the speakers? (legitimate question) extra harmonics? If you're overloading the preamp but sending it through your big fader resistor I thought it would bring the voltage back somewhere close to normal. It would act like a bad compressor. There's a lot of area under the power curve with a heavily clipped signal, and for those who do not power their rigs conservatively (ie. listen too much to the marketing sleeze) could end up unintentionally overpowering their drivers. Especially likely if they don't have enough rig for the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 There's a lot of area under the power curve with a heavily clipped signal, and for those who do not power their rigs conservatively (ie. listen too much to the marketing sleeze) could end up unintentionally overpowering their drivers. Especially likely if they don't have enough rig for the gig. I'll add to this and say that most clip lights are based on either current or voltage. Cliping an input signal adds harmonic distortion (all High freq - enough clipping and a sign wave starts to look like a square wave). This is LOTS of added HF information (yes clipping a drum channel gives it compression and extra hf transients that weren't originaly there (this is the basis of how the aural exciter works)). Let's say you have a passive two way box rated at 200 watts and you feed it with a 200 watt amp with an output limiter on. That 200 watts is mostly the burden of the woofer. The tweeter may only be rated at 30 watts. You can easily send 100 watts of HF energy to your tweeter without engaging the limiter in the power amp but your tweeter will still pop like a fuse. It is a useful effect but as agedhorse says, be conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 A lot of tweeters are good for about 15-20 watts of thermal energy as well... beware. The saving grace is that the signal has a generally high peak to average ratio because of repitition duty cycle BUT there's very small thermal inerta in a HF driver's VC so bad things can happen rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Andy would adding additional head room between the mixer amp make any difference ?Just curious since Dave doesn't mention any thing about head room in his video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Andy would adding additional head room between the mixer amp make any difference ?Just curious since Dave doesn't mention any thing about head room in his video. Nope, once the signal's clipped, there's no recovering anything. At that instant your (signal) headroom became ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Nope, once the signal's clipped, there's no recovering anything. At that instant your (signal) headroom became ZERO. Good to know that thanks BTW I would never use Dave's clipping method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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