Women's Expo Show

[nchangin]

Ok I pod probably is fine, I woundn't know don't own one, now I've been educated. However just had bad experience with them running them through mixer in the past.

[Al Poulin]

 

Ok I pod probably is fine, I woundn't know don't own one, now I've been educated. However just had bad experience with them running them through mixer in the past.

 

 

MOST MP3 players (not just Ipods) work/sound just fine in PA applications. The usual problem with MP3s in general is the actual quality of the files (bitrate) or source (illegal downloads) that are often of really crappy quality because too many people would rather be able to boast that they have 10000 songs on their player (even though these sound like crap) than admitting they only have 800 (although those 800 are near CD quality)

 

Al

[agedhorse]

 

Ok I pod probably is fine, I woundn't know don't own one, now I've been educated. However just had bad experience with them running them through mixer in the past.

 

 

Using the improper cable, ie. a 1/8"TRS to 1/4"TRS into a mono TRS balanced input would sound horrible, but not because of the I-Pod. Also, using a 1/8"TRS to 1/4" TS mono Y cable may also sound bad because the L & R line drivers are now shorted together. If you don't know about this, you could have experienced bad sound because of improper connection and not the I-Pod itself.

[nchangin]

I used 1/8" to RCA standard cable, it does work but for some reason my Mackie PRO FX 8 does not like it. The A & H Zed has no issues. I also have a 1/8 stereo to two XLR to go direct input to two channels on board which has not sounded good as those mic inputs are not matched for that line level. In this case don't think I'll have to run any audio from 3rd party sources. I have always packed the 1/8" to RCA just in case.

 

I heard there will be a projector and speaker, no word back if that projector is an audio based presentation or device.

[agedhorse]

 

I used 1/8" to RCA standard cable, it does work but for some reason my Mackie PRO FX 8 does not like it. The A & H Zed has no issues. I also have a 1/8 stereo to two XLR to go direct input to two channels on board which has not sounded good as those mic inputs are not matched for that line level. In this case don't think I'll have to run any audio from 3rd party sources. I have always packed the 1/8" to RCA just in case. .

 

 

If you use 1/8" TRS to XLR, you better be darn sure that phantom power is turned off, some versions of the various MP-3 devices can be damaged this way.

 

There is nothing wrong with running a headphone output into a mic input with the gain turned down, the impedance ratio is almost identical to a dynamic mic. I susoect that your problem was due to phantom power being on... just an educated guess.

[nchangin]

No mics I run are phantom powered, it is off. PGX 58 wireless, SM58 wired and EV 967 wired only mics I have.

[fdew]

Pat Brown at Syn-Aud-Con did real instrument testing of a number of Personal Media Players in 2010. He used the 1/8 in output at less then full volume (full distorts). The level was good enough for line inputs with a preamp or for use with a DI box. The Ipod and others but not all did very well. The Ipod did good enough to be used as a source for testing a room

 

For members, the test is here

http://www.synaudcon.com/site/author/pat-brown/personal-media-players-are-they-good-enough/

 

Frank

[agedhorse]

Then there is something else causing your symptoms. It's not the I-Pod when correctly interfaced.

 

Have you checked to see that any internal eq or effects is turned off?

[agedhorse]

 

Pat Brown at Syn-Aud-Con did real instrument testing of a number of Personal Media Players in 2010. He used the 1/8 in output at less then full volume (full distorts). The level was good enough for line inputs with a preamp or for use with a DI box. The Ipod and others but not all did very well. The Ipod did good enough to be used as a source for testing a room For members, the test is here http://www.synaudcon.com/site/author/pat-brown/personal-media-players-are-they-good-enough/ Frank

 

 

If you understood exactly what these numbers mean and their values relartive to significance, the entire test is just crazy stupid. The thresholds that he chose was not really significant relative to live audio. With a couple of exceptions (either due to a defective unit, defective design or clipping of the output under MOL testing) I doubt that anybody would be able to corrolate the numerical data with the units under double-blind testing.

 

This is an interesting excecrise but one that borders on self-masturbational audio wanking rather than any relation to real world performance. Something that some SYN-AUD-CON members specialize in.

[nchangin]

 

Then there is something else causing your symptoms. It's not the I-Pod when correctly interfaced. Have you checked to see that any internal eq or effects is turned off?

 

 

My experience was running audio off a laptop, possible there was internal eq but I tune everything flat, I rarely add any frequencies to anything (unless needed) as that really makes audio sound bad and not balanced. I will try it off my Droid smart phone and see what it sounds like. I will also read the article you posted as well later tonight, thanks for the input.

[Miko Man]

I also am typically prepared for the unknown surprises at "just a simple presentation" events by having a stereo to mono summing DI with my rig, along with a reasonable quality 1/8" TRS to RCA x 2 cable or two. It gives me the option for somebody to plug their laptop in up at the lectern to run a powerpoint or video from somewhere other than my mix position. Mark C.

[nchangin]

 

If you understood exactly what these numbers mean and their values relartive to significance, the entire test is just crazy stupid. The thresholds that he chose was not really significant relative to live audio. With a couple of exceptions (either due to a defective unit, defective design or clipping of the output under MOL testing) I doubt that anybody would be able to corrolate the numerical data with the units under double-blind testing. This is an interesting excecrise but one that borders on self-masturbational audio wanking rather than any relation to real world performance. Something that some SYN-AUD-CON members specialize in.

 

 

Interesting article. So this Y Cable. They are summing left and right outputs, assuming they mean doing a L and R stereo into a mono signal via TR jack? That does not seem like a good choice. Would you use this to say run a stereo into one 1/4" TR input channel on a mixer?

 

I assume the standard 1/8" Stereo that goes to two double RCA's do not fit in the test data correct? I assume any distortion would be a direct result of the source analog amplifier?

[agedhorse]

 

Interesting article. So this Y Cable. They are summing left and right outputs, assuming they mean doing a L and R stereo into a mono signal via TR jack? That does not seem like a good choice. Would you use this to say run a stereo into one 1/4" TR input channel on a mixer? I assume the standard 1/8" Stereo that goes to two double RCA's do not fit in the test data correct? I assume any distortion would be a direct result of the source analog amplifier?

 

 

Either active summing via a mixer, or passive summing via a summing cable using buildout resistors.

 

Any distortion would be the result of the offending mechanism. If the data is distorted (low sample rate, high error rate, inadequate bit depth) then it's because of the data. If it's because of improper loading of the source, then it's an incorrect load problem, etc. Unlikely that it would be directly the cause of any amplifier as that is generally a pretty trivial task to get right.

[Shaster]

 

I heard there will be a projector and speaker, no word back if that projector is an audio based presentation or device.

 

 

If that's the case remember to bring a stereo passive DI (or two mono DI's) to act as an isolation transformer in case you need to interface with the projector. If it's on a different circuit.... there could be ground issues.. Also be aware of where FOH world is in relationship to the projector location. If you do need to feed audio, you'll either need a long projector cable (with the laptop near your mixer) or a long audio run, if the projector and laptop are far from your FOH position.

 

And think about cable runs for the projector, and how best to place the projector and the AC and your potential audio cables, to minimize audience interaction.

 

Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll just want video - no audio.

[nchangin]

 

If that's the case remember to bring a stereo passive DI (or two mono DI's) to act as an isolation transformer in case you need to interface with the projector. If it's on a different circuit.... there could be ground issues.. Also be aware of where FOH world is in relationship to the projector location. If you do need to feed audio, you'll either need a long projector cable (with the laptop near your mixer) or a long audio run, if the projector and laptop are far from your FOH position. And think about cable runs for the projector, and how best to place the projector and the AC and your potential audio cables, to minimize audience interaction. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll just want video - no audio.

 

 

I will ask about this. Appreciate the input.

[nchangin]

Scheduled for 9 AM. I get there 7:30 scout it out and all women so they were all looking at me funny. I find where supposed to set up, right next to a big garage door, find the lady in charge and she said I could drive in but she can't find the CO in charge (it's a US Army Armory), so I tell her I'll go get trailer and roady and return as secured because they store artillary in the back. So about 8:15 gate not open, go inside to find out the back door was blocked by some exhibit's demo, so then I see a guy heading out another door, I'm look cool that must be him, cut through the kitchen get to the back he's opening the gate. 8:50 sound check we hooked up.

 

I get the schedule for the 1st time there was to be announcement at 8:45 oops guessed I missed that one, thought 9:00 was kick off per our discussion, anyway no biggy. Then I find out I'm the announcer, and again I asked this when I booked it, do I have to announce? She said minimally. Schedule is every 30 minute door prizes and every hour some function. Ok so I have to do announcing and I'm 1 of 2 males in the whole facility, so I wing it. Door prizes didn't work out good cause women come in, shop and leave so I announced many many names and the people weren't there, ha again improvised. First presenter, projector, no audio, power point, needs a mic, sweet. Sounds good when you were in front of the speakers, however did give the mic some mid kick, but still the echo was terrible, so way out in the corners it was hard to hear the speaker clearly.

 

Then two girls come to my table and want to do Zumba, she says well if we could hook up to you we don't need to haul in equipment. Can we hook up iphone? So there it came, yay the ole 1/8" in to RCA scramble, I asked you had a cable? Yes we do, but maybe we can just use the laptop? Hooked it up to RCA's fired up, sounded good, so first session I think 11 AM, give it some volume as they wanted and sounded good, good view of the dancing, then the main lady comes and says the the one side is too loud per the table right next to me? (we were literally next to each other, only a small space to walk between the tables). And the lady that complained (let's call her Margaret) was dancing to the zumba with the other girls and said she was a zumba dance instructor as well. So I'm like ok your dancing to the music and you seem to enjoy it, it's too loud and you can't just cant say hey can you turn that down? The whole time the zumba dancers wanted the volume up. So I lower volume on one top and compensate with the other and give it some juice and we finish out. Found out the main gain on that laptop they supplied was low so I was cranking the crap outta tape input gain on the 2nd session. Towards the end of the Zumba presentation Margaret comes flying over and says play this song to Zumba and hands me her cell phone and walks away, comes back in about 4 min, I'm like uhhh you have to check with those two girls dancing this is their gig, their slot and their music. Oh well we'll just wait, I'm like ok lady whatever. They get done with their presentation, it's right on schedule with the next presentation, so I tell Margaret sorry no time left to play your song off your cell phone. 1 hour later, Margaret turns out on the schedule for a 30 minute presentation, so I announce her, then she's like 5 more minutes, whatever lady ok announce 5 more minutes. She does her presentation on foot things care etc. Later on she approaches me again to play the song, I'm like ok do you have it qued up? She hands it to me and says I'm don' t know how to do do it. I'm like ma'am it's your cell phone, I really don't want to show you how to use it, so we plug it in, see the app playing give it a little gain, then it's playing out of the phone speaker, I'm like ok not auto switching but don't care, all this for some stupid song. So then she starts smashing on the screen flipping windows acting all strange and before I could do anyhthing she pulls the 1/8" dongle out of phone and Cawoomp snap crackle shhhhhh pfffft, however you describe it. She jumps about 3 inches in the air and says Oh I don't think this is such a good idea and walks away and I hope she crapped her pants.

 

2nd Zumba presentation, ok we can do this have gains set right on lap top, first thing she says is Can you turn it up we have to articulate to the low notes? I'm looking over at Margaret thinking oh hell yeah, she plugs it in and gave it some bump, good tunes and nice sound, good lows, sounded almost like latin/jazz/hip hop sang in either latin or spanish, so I cranked the heck outta the MRX 518's give the place a little rumble, I do have to give it for the zumba, they do move some body parts in nice directions! I love these JBL MRX's they are just so darn clean and good sounding. link below for pics...

 

My main question out of this experience would be, what is the best frequency to boost for getting better vocals to cut in places that have really bad echo? My EQ is only 15 band. (the CO told me the opted to get some sound walls put in there because they always have bad audio issues but not in the budget)

 

http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/p611/nchangin/

[Miko Man]

Congrats on surviving the gig. It sounds pretty much par for the course. You plan on a mic or two even when none are discussed; when they ask for a mic, and you hand them the wireless handheld, they want to know why they can't use the headworn mic they brought (without the receiver, of course). "But it works just fine back at our studio!"

 

Or they just walk up at the start of their time slot and hand you the home-made CD (that nobody told you about) and say "I just need to have you start it 43 seconds into the third track. And oh, you need to boost it up during the last 32 measures. . . ." Mark C.

[gspointer]

Be prepared for a ton of echo.

[nchangin]

 

Stupid echo monster.