2 way truss rod? how can i tell?

[BowerR65]

I picked up a used Ibanez LP knockoff off craigslist, lately ive found some decent deals on craigslist locally i just couldnt passup and ive been shocked at the playability of them. I took a shot and bought an LP copy never had 2 many of them in the past. This is the second infact. After replacing the strings they buzz all over the place. Looking down the neck it has no relief but it looks so darn straight i have to give it a chance to come around.

 

I removed the EB 9-42s i put on it and tried 10-52s with little to no luck. My next thought was to try and coax it in to a little relief with a strap around the neck and some weight hanging between 2 chairs then doing some searching discovered they actually make 2 way truss rods. This isnt a top of the line guitar but its a set neck so maybe it has one?

 

Before i start cranking the nut the wrong way is there any way to tell if the nut is a 2 way type? Ive loosened it all the way then it seems to stop and i can wiggle the nut back and forth loosly, turning it more counterclockwise it starts to feel tight again. I figured this was thread lock but now im wondering if maybe its a 2 way type and if i crank it another turn it might add the releif that im wanting?

 

Ide hate to snap the rod though

[WRGKMC]

First, get a notched fretboard straight edge and feeler gauges. Second mark your nut where it is now. Third measure the relief off the fret board with the feeler gauges. If there's no gap or the straight edge rocks on the fretboard, it means its back bowed. 4th completely loosen the nut and count the number of turns. If the back bow increases, it "may" be a 2 way truss. If the relief increases, it is probably not.

 

A two way truss works in reverse. When you tighten it the relief increases, but I've seen necks where the truss channel is so badly worn, the truss has no effect on straightening the neck, it makes you think its a two way truss.

 

You want to measure off the fret board because you cant trust frets to be level. They can be worn or lifted. Frets can also spread the fret board and cause more back bow. Some necks are either left with the truss too tight for so long they never recover. I had one I bought on EBay which started off being flat and over a years time the back bow increased with no truss tension where it was so bad it couldn't be used. I eventually pulled the frets off and took it over to a friends shop and put it on a belt sander. I had to sand the center of the fret board down to 1/2 the thickness before it was flat to get it level. I then refretted it and its been working on a build of mine ever since.

 

This occurred because the wood wasn't properly cured. If you've ever bought wood at a lumber yard, you know they buy it in packs band strapped together. When they bring it in from outside its often wet and when they release the straps and the wood dries out that wood can twist up into pretzels.

 

For a guitar neck its all about the grade of wood, how green the wood was, the grain, and how long it was cured before it was assembled. A neck left unstrung with the truss left tight can wind up with a permanent back bow as the wood continues to cure.

 

If its not off by much there are some things you can do to help coax it back. Heavy gauge strings like you're using and removing the truss pressure is one. In most cases this works but it takes time depending on how thick and hard the neck wood is. If you aren't getting any results after a month with no truss pressure, you can try applying heat with a hair dryer and using some padded wood blocks. You take one block about a few inches long and place it on the fretboard around the 5th to 9th frets. You tale two more blocks and put then at the head stock and heel of the neck and suspend a 2X4 across them. Then place a large wood clamp (the big jaws type with two screws) between the wood block on the fret board and the back of the 2X4. You then apply some moderate pressure.

 

As you apply the pressure you have to check the truss nut and make sure its still completely loose as the clamp pressure is increased.

The trick here is to increase relief, not damage the neck, frets, or finish. Applying additional heat while its under pressure can help to reset the relief. Leave it under pressure a few days to a week then remove the pressure and test the neck with the notched straight edge. If you see its flattening, continue with the pressure for a few weeks, then string it back up with no truss pressure. Only add truss pressure if its needed because the guitar is unplayable. Hang the guitar by the neck of possible on a wall hanger.

 

If you see no progress with the clamps, then you will probably need to pull the frets out an try the pressure and heat trick again. With the frets out the accordion effect is removes and the neck should give. If not, you probably have to level the fret board or in extreme cases, remove the fret board and rebuild the neck. This last step is usually only done on guitars traditionally built with bone/hide glue that can be softened with heat and steam. Most imports and budget guitars use wood glue or epoxy and the fret board cant be cleanly remove and the cost and effort just isn't worth the trouble.

 

If you do get the relief back (or it was actually there to begin with and just had a truss that was too tight) you flatten the neck with the strings off using the truss and notched straight edge. Then you will likely have to level and crown the frets. Sometimes you only have a few high frets causing all the trouble so using a rocker and focusing on them is the key objective. Permanently mounted necks often have a bump in fret height where the neck is glued to the body and if the top frets are hard to get to, they may have very little wear in comparison to the lower frets. With a level fretboard, you take a straight edge to the frets then use a feeler gauge between the frets and straight edge. If you have gaps then its due to fret wear that needs to be corrected. You'd need to use a dead flat sanding bean or radius block, remove the nut, proper support the neck so you don't back bow the neck applying pressure then level all the frets.

 

You can use a magic maker on all the frets so when you sand, them flat you can tell which are the low frets because the marker isn't being worn off. The whole idea is to preserve as much fret material as possible and still get them all dead flat with a dead flat fretboard. After that you have to crown the frets and polish them, Rocker them to find any remaining high frets created when crowning them.

 

Then you'd put the nut back on, string it up and the string pressure alone should move the neck from being dead flat to having enough relief.

 

This all may all sound complex if you haven't done it before, and if you have, then I apologize for taking it from the basics up and covering things you may already know. Buying used guitars is risky business and you really need to eyeball them well before you buy them. There are many out there that are in bad shape because they have been abused by amateurs who just never learned to care for them properly. Many only need some careful attention to make them great players again. With others, you're better off just passing them up.

 

If you wind up with a dud and you didn't pay allot for it then its a good opportunity to try everything I mentioned above including re-fretting the guitar. Even with a neck slightly back bowed, you can put super tall frets on there and level the frets so they are flat. Not the best move but it works. If anything you can learn more trying to fix a bad guitar in a few weeks then may ever learn playing a good one for decades. It just comes down to how good you are with your hands and how much time effort and money you feel like investing.

 

If you make mistakes, you learn form them and don't make those same mistakes again. In the process you learn tips and tricks from others and develop some of your own. From there you can apply that skill to anything you buy. Even the best guitars need regular maintenance and the money you save doing it over a lifetime can be invested into a few great instruments you may have never otherwise owned.

 

Good luck.

[Freeman Keller]

The easiest way to tell if you have a two way rod is that as you loosen a single acting rod the nut will come off or if it is welded on, simply become very easy to turn. With a two way rod it will get easier to turn as it passes the neutral position, then start getting a little harder as it starts warping the neck in reverse. Also, with most single acting rods as you tighten them they get very hard to turn (right before they break) but a double acting rod just gets progressively tighter.

 

Remember that a double acting rod moves twice as far as a single (both ends are threaded like a turn buckle) - they can apply a heck of a lot of force with a small amount of adjusting. An eighth of a turn at a time is plenty - let it settle and measure.

 

fwiw, here are two double acting rods. I adjusted each one flat (neutral), then gave one a full turn cw, the other a full turn ccw. The flat bar part of the truss rod sits against the fretboard - you can see how much pressure is being applied to the board and neck.

 

[BowerR65]

I went ahead and cranked it a turn counterclockwise and it did add relief even with the strings all the way loose. That is GOOD news because i cant stand these 10-52 strings they are just to heavy for what im use to.

 

Im glad i had this problem because i never even really knew there were 2 way truss rods.

 

Mine did just as you said it got loose at the halfway point and then counter turning it started to feel somewhat tight or hard to turn again but i kept turning and i could see it adding relief.

 

huge relief to say the least i thought i had a lemon.

[WRGKMC]

[knotty]

 

 

Thumbs up? You had him hanging weights on it and ripping the frets out! It was freeman who answered his question. You were back in orbit.

[Freeman Keller]

That's a relief, pun intended.

[BowerR65]

That's a relief' date=' pun intended.[/quote']

 

 

I thought of that too lol

 

My friend didnt know about the 2 way truss rod either and he has been playing about 10 years longer then i have. Pretty cool idea that 2 way truss rod.

 

Didnt matter i couldnt stand to look at the guitar for some reason, it was ugly and i wasnt really impressed with how it played.

 

Put it back on CL and picked this up tonight insted. I actually like the way it plays and looks better.

 

Something about the knob layout didnt look like an LP and the switch i didnt like where it was either.

 

Headstocks are both ugly as all get out IMO though.

[DeepEnd]

Happy New Guitar Day and better luck this time around. I assume the sunburst guitar is the one you "picked up." Nice looking guitar but I can't make out the brand. What make is it?

[BowerR65]

Happy New Guitar Day and better luck this time around. I assume the sunburst guitar is the one you "picked up." Nice looking guitar but I can't make out the brand. What make is it?

 

 

It says "FatDog" on the top, wich ive never heard of before. It actually has a set neck or glued in the hardware is decent, the pickups are schaller and the neck isnt a twisted hunk of poo. The inlays look like stickers or something but im more then happy with it then the ART-100. Maybe because im not expecting as much out of it?