What key?

[onelife]

Light enters the eyes which focus the rays on the retina which sends electrical "equivalents" to the visual center which makes the video. How many have wondered where exactly that video is and Hau Da F**K are we able to "view" it?

In His Own Image the Bible says. lol.

 

We never really encounter the world - all we ever know is our own nervous system.

 

Everything we perceive, including any perception of The Divine, is a manifestation of our mind based on input from our senses.

 

Have you read "This Is Your Brain On Music" by Daniel J. Levitin?

[1001gear]

Sadly no. Haven't had the attention span to focus on Lit in a while. I do light thinking for recreation:music005:

 

I think reality is a Klein system. (see Klein the mathematician and his 3D mobius construct) where like or unlike SHA can't be broken down to observer vs generator. Matrix and Neo are a good enough example. Quantum mechanics is just math so megalomaniacs can put potentiometers on it.

[JonR]

@ Jon

 

Not ignoring the G camp. I proved to myself that If G is properly established, SHA lands very sweetly on G. Without the TBM intro and outro however, all there is is D dorian with the Major I sub. ( I prefer this orientation since everything lays diatonically with only the one accidental. )

But why not call it D mixolydian, with no sub? Much simpler, surely?

Ironically that one sharp is the only case for G but since the F# never resolves to any kind of G let alone upwards in typical leading tone fashion, the key can't be G.

False argument. That just makes G less secure as tonic, does't mean the key "can't" be G.

After all, there is no C# anywhere, so no upward leading tone to D. Therefore the key can't be D.

Those that hear G are somehow imprinted with the plagal sense of resolution and, much as I spoke of you are ignoring the body of factual conditions for D, hear G. Fine. I've never argued individuality. Hear what you like. Synesthesians, go ahead and hallucinate. The key is still D (Dorian, Major I sub)

Plagal cadences are extremely common in rock - probably more common than authentic ones. So if I hear it as G, it means I must have been listening to too much rock music...

Actually maybe a mode can't be a key but I find that exclusion more ridiculous than SHA is in G.

Well, there's another argument where I see both sides.

In strict classical terms, modes are quite different things from keys, and one certainly can't be the other. But in modern usage I see no problem. We generally have a sense of "tonal centre" in most music (although it may shift during a piece), and we might build a conventional classic major or minor key on that, or we employ some kind of mode mixture. Often hard (or pointless) to try to disentangle the two concepts.

Incidentally I haven't seen any of those original What Key threads and fortunately am not curious.

Unfortunately, I would say - and slightly surprising, given your interest in this thread.

 

Still, I did say if I came back it would be to report on statistics. I can now satisfy your (un)curiosity as follows (adding up contributors from the two main threads on the topic on TGP):

 

"It's in D" = 35

"It's in G = 27

"It's either/both/who cares?" = 15

 

Doesn't sound like many, in any camp, but bear in mind many of those people posted countless times. One thread was nearly 500 posts long, the other over 1,000. (To be honest, I stopped counting once that second one got to around post #600; it was all the same people arguing back and forth.)

BTW, I excluded those arguing from false theory perspectives - eg "it's in G because those 3 chords are in G." The 35 and 27 are people claiming they hear it that way.

 

I haven't gone back and added up this thread, but I suspect proportions would be similar, although numbers are a lot smaller.

 

The only thing this is supposed to prove is that there IS substantial disagreement. It makes no sense to me that 27 people can be flat wrong, and 35 must be correct. (Or maybe all 62 of them are wrong and those other 15 are the correct ones? )

My opinion is that the disagreement, in itself, is interesting, because it suggests (a) that key is not an objective phenomenon., and (b) the way key is established must depend on a mix of factors, subtle in combination. We can all hear the same thing in different ways. Who is going to judge (and how) who is "correct"?

But of course, few of those in either camp have the wit to see that; they're too busy insisting their own view (D or G) is correct.

 

[1001gear]

Ah, the spam stack got deleted as did that which was this post. I don't remember what I wrote exactly but here it am am again.

 

D Dorian w/Maj sub because I play it with an open D and I believe the honky tonk parts contain F#s too.

 

As to no leading tone, the F C bit surrounds D with nothing BUT V. So there.

 

As to the controversy, I could GAF. More intriguing to me are scenarios like spies practicing Americlish

 

For example,

 

"In D" would sub for Indy

 

"In G" might sub for in Government or G men. The floating question might now be Indy? Or In G?

 

The ambiguity of it all has a cool fractal like ring where the whole is an enlargement of the motifs. Suffice it to say a collection of minds even - or maybe especially on a dumb thread, can come up with some very strange Lit.

 

I should add that real or imagined there is nothing to indicate any correlation to SHA OR LS.

[JonR]

Ah, the spam stack got deleted as did that which was this post. I don't remember what I wrote exactly but here it am am again.

hehe, me too...

D Dorian w/Maj sub because I play it with an open D and I believe the honky tonk parts contain F#s too.

But why dorian in the first place? Why choose "dorian w/maj sub" over "mixolydian (with occasional b3)"?

Just interested in how you make your decision.

As to no leading tone, the F C bit surrounds D with nothing BUT V. So there.

Nothing but V? Surely V of D is A? There's an A note in the F chord, but otherwise no V of D anywhere there.

Why not just say what it is (relative to D)? bIII-bVII. bVII (subtonic) is not a sub for V (dominant), and doesn't have to be. It can still resolve to D.

As to the controversy, I could GAF.

I guess that's why you keep coming back... (whoops so do I...)

More intriguing to me are scenarios like spies practicing Americlish

 

For example,

 

"In D" would sub for Indy

 

"In G" might sub for in Government or G men. The floating question might now be Indy? Or In G?

 

The ambiguity of it all has a cool fractal like ring where the whole is an enlargement of the motifs. Suffice it to say a collection of minds even - or maybe especially on a dumb thread, can come up with some very strange Lit.I should add that real or imagined there is nothing to indicate any correlation to SHA OR LS.

Er, yes, OK.

 

 

[1001gear]

Is the BBC anything like CNN? If you watch enough CNN or any network news, you become sensitized to the not saying. Gotta stay amused man.