Members beerguy156 Posted February 15, 2014 Members Share Posted February 15, 2014 Haven't posted in a long time, but I always got great input in the past! I am looking to upgrade my analog board to a digital. I currently run a 24 Channel Carvin, DBX compressors, DBX graphic eq. Speakers are QSC K12's over QSC KW181's. Monitors are K10's. Looking for at least a 20 channel board with 8 aux sends. Budget is $5000 or less. Do you buy a new product, or go for an older board such as an LS9? Suggestions? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted February 15, 2014 Members Share Posted February 15, 2014 If I had a 5 grand budget I'd wait for the M32 to come out.http://midasconsoles.com/Products/M32.htmlDookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted February 15, 2014 Members Share Posted February 15, 2014 I think he is on a BEER budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beerguy156 Posted February 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 15, 2014 It looks amazing. I see Sweetwater is taking pre-orders. I wonder when it will be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 16, 2014 Members Share Posted February 16, 2014 beerguy156 wrote: Haven't posted in a long time, but I always got great input in the past! I am looking to upgrade my analog board to a digital. I currently run a 24 Channel Carvin, DBX compressors, DBX graphic eq. Speakers are QSC K12's over QSC KW181's. Monitors are K10's. Looking for at least a 20 channel board with 8 aux sends. Budget is $5000 or less. Do you buy a new product, or go for an older board such as an LS9? Suggestions? Thanks! 5K will get you a huge upgrade over your current rig in every respect. I should really have this saved in a doc somewhere so I can simply cut and paste it The good news for you is that there are several contenders for your money. I am going to limit it to just a few options. New digital mixers come with some really great features that you currently don't have in your existing rig. Some of these features (once you use them) will make you re-assess what a "mixer" is altogether. A little history. Presonus was the first MI market "digital" mixer. I put digital in quotes because it was really more of an analog mixer work flow with integrated channel processing and efx. A more pure implementation of a "digital" mixer not only has these features, but also allows you to route any signal anywhere through your mixer (inputs to faders, faders to busses, and busses to outputs). Presonus had a hit though. By going with this "DigiLog" (amalgom of digital and analog), they were able to quickly capture old analog users since the workflow was so familiar. Sadly, I am not going to be recommending Presonus. The lack of features compared to the new crop of digital mixers (having more pure implementations of digital and therefore more features) keeps them off my list. Behringer released its X32 about 2 years ago. The price was only $3000.00, but it was functionally equivelent (and even superior in some respects) to the much more expensive LS9-32 costing many times its price. This product has really set the market on its ear. Both Allen and Heath and Soundcraft released new MI grade mixers about 1 year after Behringer. These mixers (as well as the X32) are all fantastic sounding mixers which are very feature rich. So here you go. Allen and Heath have just released their Qu-24 which is a 24 channel version of their Qu-16. Unlike both the Behringer and Soundcraft digital offerings, the Qu-16 can not be extended to higher channel counts by the use of a stage box (even though you can use a stage box with it, you just can't use the stage box as additional inputs, only replacements). The Qu offers direct to USB hard drive recording of multiple tracks as well as feeding these tracks back into the mixer for a "virtual sound check". The routing capabilities of this mixer are weaker than the X32, but it is easier to setup. It lacks DCA's and the channel LED meters are only a pittiful 3 LED setup with the highest one being clip. I am not sure of the pricing on the 24 channel mixer. Soundcraft expression Si, unlike the Qu mixer, has the distinction of being able to expand to the most number of mixed channels in this market (66). The only real downside of this mixer is that you can not record multi-track without expensive expansion cards (MADI). The X32 has 2 potentials I would recommend for you. The first is the X32 full which goes for $2500.00 now. It is the most feature rich of the group, and has a feature called LCD scribble strips which tells you what a fader is assigned to do on different layers. The LCD can contain text, background color, and an icon. This is a 32 channel mixer console. The other option is the X32 Rack with the S16 stage box. With this setup you could run a show remotely via wireless or wired ethernet and have it all contained in a 6 space rack. The X32 family can be controlled from up to 10 remote devices at the same time. These devices currently include iPad, PC, and Android. You can download all these apps for free and try them out to get a feel for how the X32 mixer works. All these mixers sound fantastic. It is really a matter of features. I would caution you that while you may not know what a DCA is or a matrix mix (neither did I before I purchased my X32 Rack), you soon find ways of using these features to make your life better. There is an ongoing discussion about the merrits of remote wireless mixing. I can tell you that from my perspective, I will never own a mixer that doesn't do this again. I also can't imagine not having the ability to do multi-track record and playback. This single feature alone has made my band sound so much better live. We are able to replay our performance and make adjustements to our channel processing and overall mix until we get the sound we want the audience to hear. We then simply save these settings to the internal scene memory in the mixer for retreival later. You should be able to research all of these mixers, go to a store and play with them yourself and decide which one is right for you. All of them will sound fantastic and all are built very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 16, 2014 Members Share Posted February 16, 2014 OneEng wrote: A little history. Presonus was the first MI market "digital" mixer. I think you forgot about the Yamaha 01 series and Behringer DDX3216. The Behringer was basically a clone of the 01 but had better functionality that Yamaha eventually copied and improved on to make the 01V if I remember correctly - which is the way competitive innovation is supposed to work . Oh, and the Phonic Summit was announced about the same time as the Presonus SL. All MI IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rob_H Posted February 16, 2014 Members Share Posted February 16, 2014 OneEng wrote: Soundcraft expression Si, unlike the Qu mixer, has the distinction of being able to expand to the most number of mixed channels in this market (66). The only real downside of this mixer is that you can not record multi-track without expensive expansion cards (MADI). For the OP; at many dealers right now you can get the MADI card and Mini 32 Stage Box for the SI 3 for only a few hundred over the cost of the SI 3 alone...in other words, 64 channels and/or recording interface for only slightly more money...the quoted statement above is not accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 19, 2014 Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would go with the Qu because of the multitrack recording and playback capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beerguy156 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks to everyone contributing on this thread....as always, true professionals with great insight. I will wait until I can get some hands on with the products and make a selection. I will let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 The thing with dealing with down south, is the exchange, the shipping, the duty, the wait. At L&M you can walk out the door that day. And they even can finance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 StratGuy22 wrote:The thing with dealing with down south, is the exchange, the shipping, the duty, the wait. At L&M you can walk out the door that day. And they even can finance it. Depends how you go about it. When I bought my SL-24, I got it on sale at MF, 15%-20% off, and their price was already about $600. cheaper than anywhere in Canada.. They also gave me a "free" Harbinger 15" active loudspeaker (which I immediately sold) Since they didn't ship that product to Canada, I had it shipped to my girlfriends place in Florida. She shipped it to me via the U.S.P.S.,($126.) and for some reason, I wasn't charged a penny for brokerage fees, duty, taxes, etc. Zip,,, zero,,,, nadda.At the time, that mixer was selling for $4300 at Steve's Music. (including taxes). My total cost landed here, was something like $2650. iirc. (after selling the "free" speaker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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