Members gr8fuldodd Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 I know it takes skillI know I can't do it then again I never tried but if I walked into some club, I guess I couldn't do it but I can't swallow DJ's being seen as musical artists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Depends. The one in yer local nightclub who, at most, beatmatches each record to the previous is an entertainer, but probably not a musician by any useful definition (I'm sure there are dictionaries that disagree with me on this point, hence the "useful" quantifier). On the other hand, there are those who have records cut for them with tones, chords and other sounds on, and actually create original compositions by manually adjusting the playback speed, jumping from section to section and so on. I'd regard the latter as musicians; they're demonstrating greater physical dexterity than is needed to bash out some chords around a campfire; they're composing and performing original music, and findamentally I can't see a difference between that or playing a keyboard that has predefined sounds that are triggered by pressing the keys. When you've seen someone with a turntable take a record with a constant pitch tone, and vary the speed to produce melodies, arpeggios and so on you've got to concede that they're doing something analagous to playing any other musical instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StrangeDay Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Sure, if they sing or play a musical instrument... But there are also many things you can do with a good pair of turntables.But if mixing records is the only thing they know how to do, then no of course that would not make them a musician. Same thing with guitar or any other piece of equipment. If you only know how to play the intro to "Ain't talkin' 'bout love" by Van Halen, then you still aren't a musician. In other words, it's not the intrument or piece of equipment. It's the person. I mean, are all guitarists the same? Are THEY all musicians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 DJs play records. that's about it. sure, they speed up a record and mix and all of that, but basically they play records. if it's a techno DJ he might jump up and down, waving his fist in the air and blow a whistle. he has time to do this cuz he's not playing music but rather records. unless you count the whistle as music. btw, with a simple laptop you can program all of those mixes in advance and drop it off at the club. why don't DJs do that? they want to be SEEN playing records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by dot-dot-dot ...and fundamentally I can't see a difference between that or playing a keyboard that has predefined sounds that are triggered by pressing the keys. Essentially, every western musical instrument I can think of is based on the principle that if the player does such-and-such a thing, such-and-such a sound will result. Predefined sounds from pressing, blowing, plucking... I'm agreeing with you, but I think your argument can be extended to cover more than just keyboards, sequencers and other such instruments that have occasionally been labelled as not being "real" instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by english_bob I'm agreeing with you, but I think your argument can be extended to cover more than just keyboards, sequencers and other such instruments that have occasionally been labelled as not being "real" instruments. Absolutely - I picked on keyboards because one of the standard digs at turntablists is that they're just playing back other peoples' material. Lots of keyboards essentially play back samples (through filters, FX and so on), which seems to me to be a very similar thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StrangeDay Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by GuyaGuy DJs play records. that's about it... On a scale of 1 - 10 how accurate do you think that sounded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Well, guitarists bash strings. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AMZ-FX Posted June 27, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 27, 2005 I just look at it as another form of percussion... regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gr8fuldodd Posted June 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 obviously this is a worthwhile discussion I like the fact that keyboards have been brought into the discussion frankly I think both are for wankers just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lanefair Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Depends entirely on the DJ and what he does. My father was a DJ, he played the birdie song and vanilla Ice for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members capnbringdown Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 No, {censored} that, DJs aren't musicians. I won't sit here and say that DJing doesn't take skill; it does. However, it is no more being a musician than being a record producer is being a musician. It would probably help to have some kind of musical background and know {censored} about your {censored}. Being a musician involves playing an insturment, even if that insturment is your voice. You're not an musician if all you do is sit around and twiddle yer knobs and fiddle with your self-oscilatting delay. You gotta hit one of them god-damn notes to be a musician! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 fine, DJs are musicians, what do i care? ever read the short story by Kafka about the whistler? she had the most glorious, most pristine whistle ever heard. but a the end of the day, it's just a whistle. ever read salinger write about the guy riding around on the tricycle and doing the whole circus schtick. his protagonist is amazed until he realizes the guy doing it had to practice doint that for hours everyday and then got upset and depressed. same goes for DJing. you can mix, scratch, blend, beat-match, and fiddle with the EQ all you want, but why not spend yr time doing THAT and learn how to play original music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phoenix_76 Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 a DJ who just plays a selection of preselected records is just what their name suggest, a disc jockey, someone who plays discs. a DJ who mixes and samples other's musical recordings in a live setting is in essence a live musical producer/performer A singer/guitarist/keyboardist etc who plays someone else's musical composition is a musical performer A person who sequences notes in a sequencer or keyboard or writes original musical scores is a composer. A person who both composes original music and performs their own music, in my eyes, can justify calling themselves musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDarxide Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 oh, by the way:HANG THE DJ! HANG THE DJ! HANG THE DJ! why?BECAUSE THE MUSIC HE CONSTANTLY PLAYS SAYS NOTHING TO ME ABOUT MY LIFE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gr8fuldodd Posted June 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by TheDarxide http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7927 well dog my cats, they's disseperated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gr8fuldodd Posted June 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by Lanefair Bear in mind that hundreds of years ago people didn't consider the piano to be a real instrument. what the hell are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 i believe he's refering to the fact that until WA Mozart starting writing pieces for it, the pianoforte wasn't a popular instrument. keyboard pieces were played primarily on the harpsichord or organ.either that, or he means people didn't believe that the piano actually existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachary vex Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 my cello instructor in highschool (a member of the Minnesota Orchestra) said the piano was a percussion instrument, and he looked at it with complete disdain. must be some old school orchestra snob thing. sounds cool to me, and it's not that easy to play well! once in a while you run into a DJ who can not only captivate your imagination and can perfectly match pitch and/or rhythm for the best emotional effect during the crossfade moment. that's a musician's skill. yet it's difficult to look at a phonograph as a musical instrument because it represents someone else's performance... and if it's not a musical instrument, is it a musician playing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lobster Magnet Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 If we are speaking of people who use a turntable an instrument, and not a radio DJ, than yes, they are. It's stupid to debate this, especially from a bunch of guitar players. Guitar is one if the easiest instruments to play. It takes no more talent to press down a few chords than it does to manipulate sounds with knobs and buttons and other electronic devices. It really doesn't matter how complicated something is to play anyway, it's about how creative you are with an instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Narcosynthesis Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 i would say it depends on what exactly the dj does... a dj that takes a well known song, then adds in some 'beats' to it from a second record i wouldnt count as a musician, it will take a bit of skill to match the tempos and get both in synch, but i dont count that as musicianship but there are djs who do a hell of a lot more than that, splicing together lots of small bits from various places, and doing all the tricks like scratching, i would count that more as being a musician, not in the same way as playing a guitar, but definately a musician, and it takes a lot of skill to do that (and sound good) you can look at guitar in the same way, there are lots of people with an acoustic sitting in their living rooms, who can bash out e-a-d on it and sing kum bah yah, but they arent musicians, just someone who knows the very basics of the guitar David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dot-dot-dot Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by zachary vex if it's not a musical instrument, is it a musician playing it? On the other hand, if someone is making music with it, doesn't it become a musical instrument by implication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Filterbank Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 I'm going with the crowd, yes, it's a skill, a musical one. But in no way is a person who beat matches and 'feels the vibe of the room' a musician. A DJ who produces the music they play to a room is a musician. But some guy who bops around and snorts coke all night and gets paid a grand for spinning records they didn't make, that person is not a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members auditorium Posted June 27, 2005 Members Share Posted June 27, 2005 Turntablists like DJ Shadow, DJ Logic, Kid Koala DJ Spooky, Cut Chemist, Invisible Skratch Pickles, etc, are musicians at least on par with, if not more inventive, than most music I hear these days. The guys who spin dance singles for vacant-headed x'd up fools, less so. I suspect this thread should come with a required listening list: DJ Shadow's "...endtroducing" Medeski, Martin, Wood w/DJ Logic, "Combustication" DJ Spooky's "Rhythm Warfare" Kid Koala's "Carpel Tunnel Syndrome" Mix Master Mike on the Beastie Boys' "Hello Nasty" etc, etc, ad nauseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.