OT: educate yourselves about oil and why we wage war.

[zachary vex]

You Lefties don't like to be reminded that Fascism is Socialism. ...

 

and deficits are surpluses and black is white and up is down and everything bush says he's doing is the exact opposite of what his results are.

 

Man, you guys will believe anything . . .

 

. . . well, anything that's anti-American, anti-Capitalist or anti-balls.

 

actually, we don't believe Pat Robertson can leg-lift 2000 lbs or that the Clintons killed Vince Foster or that kerosene can be used to melt steel. but that's just a little problem us science-minded liberals have. the truth having a liberal bias.

[BryanMichael]

 

Originally posted by Gristlefist You Lefties don't like to be reminded that Fascism is Socialism. "Nazi" = "National Socialist German Workers Party." And yes, we killed that too. But where's that Rove indictment? Does this oil propaganda have a better basis in fact than that story? Or the Dan Rather forged documents? Or Global Warming or Socialism or second-hand smoke? Man, you guys will believe anything . . . . . . well, anything that's anti-American, anti-Capitalist or anti-balls.

 

 

The fact that you use the "Nazi" agrument shows how little you know about the political spectrum. Hitler was anti-communist to the core (or so he professed) and was a RIGHT WING dictator. Let me say that again A RIGHT WING dictator. Although this is debated in some scholarly circles, he set the STATE up as a religious institution- it was a "state religion"

Ever see German children singing hymns praising "Der Fuhrer- OUR LORD AND SAVIOR" ? Check out "The Eye of Vichy" or other documentaries. Hitler exploited the working class to create an intergrated state military industrial machine, and he set himself (and the state) up as a de facto "religious" figure/institution (like the Taliban or Ayatollah.) This is right wing fascism. It's people like you that "believe anything" (Look! WMD! WMD!) because you are beyond ignorant- ignorance is forgivable. But just being plain stupid...well...

[Alex D]

Originally posted by BryanMichael ZVex lost the Cold War? I thought we won... you know, the end of fascisim in Europe, rigged elections, etc... Oh that's right! We DID lose! Fascism was re-born here in the USA....with a rigged election. thanks for reminding me.

 

hey bryan your back , longtime no see. Great post by the way

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by Alex D hey bryan your back , longtime no see. Great post by the way

 

Hey man, I graduated in Dec...( at 35 years old )

How much longer do you have at OSU?

[Alex D]

atleast another year for me But I'll be about 35 when I grad from O.S.U

 

I'm got a 3.88 gpa, so I'm looking to grad school, if I can nail down the rest of my acad work and computer programming

[BryanMichael]

Yeah, I'm considering Grad school (although my GPA slipped to a 2.9 my last quarter) but it's just so much time not making any money and I'm really far behind where I wanted to be at this stage in my life. It's nice to be working again and I'm producing a film this summer- I shoot in three weeks.

B

[Alex D]

Originally posted by BryanMichael Yeah, I'm considering Grad school (although my GPA slipped to a 2.9 my last quarter) but it's just so much time not making any money and I'm really far behind where I wanted to be at this stage in my life. It's nice to be working again and I'm producing a film this summer- I shoot in three weeks. B

 

a film producer, that is way cool

 

the whole being late in this stage of life, I can totally relate. It not to late though I'm not looking to become wealthy, just free

[IndyGuitarist]

Since when did an effects builder become the voice of political reasoning? I'm just sayin'

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by zachary vex actually, we don't believe . . . that kerosene can be used to melt steel. but that's just a little problem us science-minded liberals have.

Hold on--are you believing that "twin towers was a demolition job" thing? Talk about proving my point in spades. And where is that Rove indictment? And where is that Socialist utopia that hasn't gone to crap? My point stands: You guys will believe anything that's anti-American, anti-Capitalist or anti-balls.

[inscho]

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by BryanMichael The fact that you use the "Nazi" agrument shows how little you know about the political spectrum. Hitler was anti-communist to the core (or so he professed) and was a RIGHT WING dictator. Let me say that again A RIGHT WING dictator.

Well, if you're going to put it in caps TWICE, it must be true.

 

Originally posted by BryanMichael Although this is debated in some scholarly circles, he set the STATE up as a religious institution- it was a "state religion" Ever see German children singing hymns praising "Der Fuhrer- OUR LORD AND SAVIOR" ? Check out "The Eye of Vichy" or other documentaries. Hitler exploited the working class to create an intergrated state military industrial machine, and he set himself (and the state) up as a de facto "religious" figure/institution (like the Taliban or Ayatollah.) This is right wing fascism.

There are only two political philosophies, True Liberalism and Excuses For Dictatorship. Theocracy and Socialism both fall in the second category. Hitler was no less a cult figure than Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and now Chavez. Sure he hated the competition, but he called himself a Socialist, and, like a Socialist, he preached that the government should have greater power over individuals for the sake of the common good. (Theocrats preach that the government should have greater power over individuals for the sake of God.)

[jb1911]

Hey Michael Moore Junior, stick to making pedals.

[zachary vex]

Originally posted by Gristlefist Hold on--are you believing that "twin towers was a demolition job" thing? Talk about proving my point in spades. And where is that Rove indictment? And where is that Socialist utopia that hasn't gone to crap? My point stands.

 

ahh, you're beliving that "twin towers were taken down by airplanes" thing? hey, i didn't write "America needs a new Pearl Harbor." you neocons did that with the PNAC's

[Testify]

where's the Rove indictment???

[zachary vex]

 

Originally posted by jb1911 Hey Michael Moore Junior, stick to making pedals.

 

 

get a job.

[zachary vex]

 

Originally posted by Testify where's the Rove indictment???

 

 

what? did you lose it again?

[Esperanto]

Yes, the democrat party base has totally gone insane

 

That is why leading democrat politicians are positioning themselves to exit the part...and they will after 2006

 

www.unity08.com

 

It's here...American Kadima...

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by zachary vex ahh, you're beliving that "twin towers were taken down by airplanes" thing?

Just curious--what's your take on these:

-The moon landings were faked

-JFK was killed by the CIA

-The Earth is hollow and inhabited by shape-shifting reptilian aliens

[Barnabyhuggins]

- It is not prima facie wrong for a nation to go to war to protect its economic interests and the ability of its people to remain content. In fact, this is the central and only defensible reason to go to war: to maintain your way of life. Commentators such as Newman seem to forget this very basic point and believe that showing the war in Iraq to be rooted in self-interest and economic concerns provides a damning condemnation to the entire endeavor. This is not a point meant to directly endorse the Iraq war or a claim that there are no other relevant considerations or facts. However, it is a point that is worth mentioning.

 

- Peak Oil is a heavily disputed concept that I have done an extensive amount of research on. The advocates of Peak Oil have shown themselves to be as dodgy and backstepping as all doomsday profits of our past (i.e. Malthus, Ehrlich, LaRouche). Their predictions are constantly updated and modified when they prove to be false. In this way they resemble Apocalyptic cults - most directly the Jehovah's Witnesses - who constantly predicted the end times and, after proven incorrect, offer recriminations about why they were wrong but are still right.

 

Of course none of these observations constitute a refutation of the claims of Peak Oil itself. They simply offer a contextualization. The ultimate reason Peak Oil is misled is that it believes in a static outcome that will perpetuate itself without humans adapting their behavior to new conditions. In other words, much like beliefs in price-fixing, they believe that the predicted future will not change how people behave towards that future: that we will continue to do the same things when those things become increasingly unattainable. (i.e. A fixed price will not change how much is demanded of a good it will just allow all those who want it - at the level they wanted it at the old price - to get it.)

 

When these points are brought up to "Peakniks" they continually modify their claims down to the lowest level until they are simply saying "but you can't deny that oil will run out some day and before that it will be inefficient in supplying energy." No, I don't deny this. However, I believe that adjustments in consumer and supplier behavior created by freely fluctuating prices are the only things that can remedy this problem.

 

There may be problems when these things happen. Market forces cannot adjust spontaneously with changes in environmental conditions. There will be "market lag." The theory of Peak Oil may predict some amount of turmoil and period of adjustment that the future will bring. However, it does not warrant a "collapse of industrial civilization!" cry from every available bellfry.

 

Anyway, since Newman's movie clearly takes from this emergingly popular theory (the referenced book "The Party's Over" is entirely based on the theory of Peak Oil) I thought it worthwhile to, albeit superficially, address the issues.

 

Overall the movie was shoddy and shortsighted political theory presented in a vaguely entertaining and occasionally humorous medium. Newman is a lifelong Marxist. Therefore his claims are based on unstated premises that form the foundations of his entire ideology. I find those unstated premises to be false, if not wholly revolting.

 

Any, 'nuff 'bout that.

 

Either way, thanks for the vid Zach. I am glad I watched it.

[The Great Waldo Pepper]

 

Originally posted by Gristlefist You Lefties don't like to be reminded that Fascism is Socialism. "Nazi" = "National Socialist German Workers Party." And yes, we killed that too. But where's that Rove indictment? Does this oil propaganda have a better basis in fact than that story? Or the Dan Rather forged documents? Or Global Warming or Socialism or second-hand smoke? Man, you guys will believe anything . . . . . . well, anything that's anti-American, anti-Capitalist or anti-balls.

 

 

Fascism is not socialism. Fascism is when you have an absolute focus on economics and want to make a stable government based on the interests of the largest business's. For example, the representatives in Congress for Washington State would be Boeing and Microsoft executives, not elected officials. Some could argue that is where we are now to a certain degree. Fascism is focused purely on economic stability, no regard to human nature, which is true of MOST rightwing approaches and hiarchy. Soviet Union called itself "Socialist" but again it was a hiarchical centralized system that paid little regard to individual humans and almost exclussively on economics and militarism. I would argue that the Soviet Union was a rightwing attempt to use ideas of the left for their own power and control desires. It was not Socialism.

 

Problem is with most Americans is we can't get past the mythology of the Soviet Union being called Socialist. But when the big wigs on Wall Street are now reading Marx, perhaps you might consider why. Capitalism will not last forever, especially when it is confused for a form of government "Democracy". They are not one in the same. This is why there is a huge difference from "Sky is falling cynisism" and being aware that humanity has always faced major changes. When you look back at history overall humanity makes the correct choices and moves on the side of progress.

 

Anti-balls? Didn't I meet you once? You seemed like a {censored} to me.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by Barnabyhuggins - It is not prima facie wrong for a nation to go to war to protect its economic interests . . . . - Peak Oil is a heavily disputed concept . . . . Newman is a lifelong Marxist. Therefore his claims are based on unstated premises that form the foundations of his entire ideology. I find those unstated premises to be false, if not wholly revolting.

+1

[rushtallica]

Originally posted by catalinbread That is why I laugh when folks brag about biodiesel... It's still a net energy loss and does little for emissions. I think we'd be just as well off with turbine powered cars that can run off of anything from dirty dishwater to kerosene to Absolute vodka to jet fuel. One problem here is even at stops your burning as much fuel as you would going 85 mph. And thats why it is really hard to give a crap about anything other than just living life right now.

 

[hbar]

Originally posted by zachary vex get a job.

Excellent. You should email this link to your debate teacher to show him how persuasive you can be.

 

EDIT: I lose for even reading this thread.

[telephant]

Originally posted by catalinbread Fascism is not socialism. Fascism is when you have an absolute focus on economics and want to make a stable government based on the interests of the largest business's. For example, the representatives in Congress for Washington State would be Boeing and Microsoft executives, not elected officials. Some could argue that is where we are now to a certain degree. Fascism is focused purely on economic stability, no regard to human nature, which is true of MOST rightwing approaches and hiarchy. Soviet Union called itself "Socialist" but again it was a hiarchical centralized system that paid little regard to individual humans and almost exclussively on economics and militarism. I would argue that the Soviet Union was a rightwing attempt to use ideas of the left for their own power and control desires. It was not Socialism. Problem is with most Americans is we can't get past the mythology of the Soviet Union being called Socialist. But when the big wigs on Wall Street are now reading Marx, perhaps you might consider why. Capitalism will not last forever, especially when it is confused for a form of government "Democracy". They are not one in the same. This is why there is a huge difference from "Sky is falling cynisism" and being aware that humanity has always faced major changes. When you look back at history overall humanity makes the correct choices and moves on the side of progress. Anti-balls? Didn't I meet you once? You seemed like a {censored} to me.

 

Excellent post.

[Gristlefist]

Originally posted by catalinbread Fascism is when you have an absolute focus on economics and want to make a stable government based on the interests of the largest business's.

So Fascism is merging state with business and Communism is merging business with state--sounds like the same thing to me!

 

The main difference between Fascism and Socialism is Nationalism vs. Internationalism. Moussolini was a leading light in the Italian Socialist party, but he split off over just that issue. Bottom line, they are both excuses for authoritarian government--it must be done "for the common good." They just disagree about how to define the common good.

 

Originally posted by catalinbread Problem is with most Americans is we can't get past the mythology of the Soviet Union being called Socialist.

If you call everything that fails "not Socialist," you're not left with anything "Socialist." It always fails. Lenin was a Marxist, and Marx praised the USSR.

 

Originally posted by catalinbread But when the big wigs on Wall Street are now reading Marx, perhaps you might consider why.

:confused: Wow, I'd really like to see a cite for that!

Originally posted by catalinbread Capitalism will not last forever, especially when it is confused for a form of government "Democracy". They are not one in the same.

Democracy is a process, not a few vague value statements about "the people." It's a process of chosing a government by election. It is "free market" government. It works for the same reasons that capitalism and science work.

 

Originally posted by catalinbread Anti-balls? Didn't I meet you once? You seemed like a {censored} to me.

We've never met. You're projecting.

You know what I mean by anti-balls--it's the kind of people that say: "Men are responsible for everything that's wrong with the world, especially men that have power and get things done and make money, especially if they're American and hetero and actually want to have sex with women. Especially if they play lacrosse. They ought to be conviced of rape just for playing lacrosse. Of course, any sex act where a man has an erection is rape . . . . " Like most of your teachers. Typically all Socialists.