Members Collapse Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 where do the 6ths,7ths,9ths come from ? are they NEW melody lines or COMMON tones from the previous chords to connect to the following chord ?What are the relationships ? They are second cousins. You should probably buy some Monster Cables so that they remain more pure (less signal loss). You wouldn't want to have inbred chord tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members St. Andrew Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 brians dad beat the {censored} outta him widda belt "more slash chords & voice leading {censored} goddammit, brian, you big {censored} fart" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronzo II Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 where do the 6ths,7ths,9ths come from ? are they NEW melody lines or COMMON tones from the previous chords to connect to the following chord ?What are the relationships ? Try this. Take the chords' notes on a staff (or on a tab of the song) and play or sing individual notes from each of the chords in sequence. When you can either sing or play that line, join the notes or tab indications with a certain color line, say blue for the melody line. Use a different color line to connect the notes for each part you can determine. Usually, the melody and the bass line are two lines you can find pretty quickly. It's the other lines -- the other voices, if those lines were sung -- that are a little harder to find. Use the record to ID the guys' voices; it makes that process easier. Ultimately, this allows you to see what was meant in an earlier post as the horizontal view as opposed to a vertical view of the song. Looking at tab makes you see the notes as a vertical path to finger the chords. For me, at least, I lose the sense of where a line is going by looking at just the tab. I have to either hear it played/sung, or I have to see it on a staff to understand it. After you can find the Beach Boys' harmonies, that way, try it with Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young's stuff. If you do, you'll see just how important David Crosby's harmony sense was to their stuff. He found the harmonies that glued the other parts together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 where do the 6ths,7ths,9ths come from ? are they NEW melody lines or COMMON tones from the previous chords to connect to the following chord ? What are the relationships ? No offense Walters, but I have a very hard time believing you took / passed music theory courses at a reputable college and still have to ask this sort of question. 6ths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths are steps of the scale, and melodies and chords can use those notes. They're extensions above and beyond the major or minor triads. Leading tones? Play the following: Asus7, E7, Dsus, D. Hear that high D note ringing out? It's common to all three of those chords, and gives continuity to the A and the E and the D. Similar things can be done with "slash" chords, where you play a G, G/F# Em progression, the bass notes lead down from the G to the Em. How do you write with more complex chords? Pick a few that work well together in a progression and write a melody that works well with them over the top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ItchyFingers Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 First, you'll need a grand piano. Second, you'll need to build a large sandbox in the living room of your mansion. Third, you're going to need lots and lots of LSD. Oh, and a piece of paper and a pencil. Once you got all that together... place the piano in the sandbox, drink the acid like Gatorade after a long run, and compose your cray ass off (being sure to use plenty of second and third inversions)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 yes actually i did take college music ((6ths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths are steps of the scale, and melodies and chords can use those notes. They're extensions above and beyond the major or minor triads.)) Yes i know that but how do u songwrite or uses theses add color like brian wilson did in these songs Can u please look over the way he uses them to find out his ""technique"" of using them the way he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 where do the 6ths,7ths,9ths come from ? are they NEW melody lines or COMMON tones from the previous chords to connect to the following chord ?What are the relationships ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paganifuzz Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 dude... i am brazilian and have a hard time not using 7ths.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 Are those chords at the beginning of the thread accurate for "Don't Talk Put Your Head On My Shoulder"? Cause I tried playing along with it and they sound wrong. Do I need to use a capo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 First, you'll need a grand piano. Second, you'll need to build a large sandbox in the living room of your mansion. Third, you're going to need lots and lots of LSD. Oh, and a piece of paper and a pencil. Once you got all that together... place the piano in the sandbox, drink the acid like Gatorade after a long run, and compose your cray ass off (being sure to use plenty of second and third inversions)! Wasn't the sandbox was in his bedroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urinate Forever Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 I think you need some kind of flanger to make that work. Also, change out all the capacitors in your acoustic guitar to tropical fish type caps. hahaha. i think it just comes naturally to people. it's not somethign you can put onto paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EDS Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 where do the 6ths,7ths,9ths come from ? are they NEW melody lines or COMMON tones from the previous chords to connect to the following chord ?What are the relationships ? The reason your questions are so difficult to answer is that they are too general. It depends entirely on the context. The extensions could be due to melodic considerations; other times they might be common tones between the chords. To use a generic example, if you have A - E7/G#, the common tone is E. The low A will move to G#, the E will stay the same, the C# will move to D or B; another A might move to B or G#. It just depends. Another generic example - in a G7#9 chord might resolve to a CMaj13 chord (as in Ellington's Prelude to a Kiss) - the #9 is Ab which moves stepwise to the 13th of the Cmaj which is an A. That is in the melody of the song. I don't know Beach Boys songs very well, so I can't comment specifics to the way they're used. Using chords symbols like E/G# requires the performer to fill in the voice-leading for themselves. A deeper study of voice-leading on the guitar would be your best bet. If you want a specific answer to your questions you either need to ask someone who knows these songs intimately, or give a more specific example that is more in depth than just chord symbols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Urinate Forever Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 yes actually i did take college music ((6ths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths are steps of the scale, and melodies and chords can use those notes. They're extensions above and beyond the major or minor triads.)) Yes i know that but how do u songwrite or uses theses add color like brian wilson did in these songs Can u please look over the way he uses them to find out his ""technique"" of using them the way he does there's a difference between guitar technique and songwriting technique. don't worry about how he writes his stuff, just write what you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wjbratcher Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 walters is funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drasp Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 Wow - this is a crazy-@$$ thread! I think I'm dumber than before I read it. . . How do I be happy - like truly happy? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 The extensions could be due to melodic considerations; other times they might be common tones between the chords. 1.) What are these melodic considerations? 2.) I always thought of the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th as leading tones and use just resolve them to common tomes of the previous chord to the following chord , they are just "color passing tones" or "color common tones" or just "color leading tones/voicing leading" is this True EDS? 3.) When u use Slash chords its easier to use extension color chords, cause most likely when u use a invesion of a diatonic chord it will be a common Color tone/note for the next following chord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EDS Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 1.) What are these melodic considerations? All this means, if the melody uses notes outside the triad, it will be included in the chord. If the melody note is the 9th, a 9 chord could be used. 2.) I always thought of the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th as leading tones and use just resolve them to common tomes of the previous chord to the following chord , they are just "color passing tones" or "color common tones" or just "color leading tones/voicing leading" is this True EDS? Just so we're clear, 9th, 11th, and 13th aren't leading tones, at least in any conventional sense of the word. Whether they are used as color or as passing tones really depends on the situation. The terms you're using "color passing tones" or "color common tones" are not really clear. By "color" I mean the melody note is a C, but the chord might be a Cmaj9. THus, the ninth and 7th add color to the basic triadic harmony. They may not be voice-leading considerations. Maybe you can post something specific? 3.) When u use Slash chords its easier to use extension color chords, cause most likely when u use a invesion of a diatonic chord it will be a common Color tone/note for the next following chord? I don't think this is true - whether or not the chord is inverted doesn't really matter whether or not the there is a common tone between two chords, extensions or not. An inverted chord has the same notes as a chord in root position. All of the replies on this thread (including mine) seem to be confusing the issue more than anything. There is no magic voodoo to any of this. Its all about following the tendencies of individual notes. I would advise studying harmony more in depth before gettiing in any deeper into the subject. You haven't mentioned if you can actually play the chords mentioned in the Beach Boys songs. Why don't you play the chords, and then ask about specific aspects of voice leading, if necessary? I think this would yield greater success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 1.)6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th are leading tones cause u have to RESOLVE THEM If they aren't leading tones what are they , cause u have to resolve them? 2.) If u don't use 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th notes/tones then there is NO voice leading ? 3.) If u use the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th notes/tones What kind of voice leading does it become VS not using the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th notes/tones just the root,3rd,5ths only 4.) Whats the difference of voice leading of using only the root,3rd,5ths VS using the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th notes/tones ? Why is the voice leading so much different when u use the 6ths,7th,9th,11th,13th notes/tones VS using the root,3rd,5th notes for voice leading ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 I think he doesn't understand because nobody speaks Walters9515's language. Easy answer: Blickity yt blorp blap, arkidity thop bigity. Clap tap guzza guzza, wizzy fizzy gom-poms. Zamfugi adazan dieadat ud fudi. More complex answer: Oompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-doI have a perfect puzzle for youOompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-deeIf you are wise, you'll listen to me What do you get when you guzzle down sweets?Eating as much as an elephant eatsWhat are you at getting terribly fat?What do you think will come of that? Clear enough now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bowlingshirt Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 brians dad beat the {censored} outta him widda belt "more slash chords & voice leading {censored} goddammit, brian, you big {censored} fart" This is the correct answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 I think he doesn't understand because nobody speaks Walters9515's language.Easy answer:Blickity yt blorp blap, arkidity thop bigity. Clap tap guzza guzza, wizzy fizzy gom-poms. Zamfugi adazan dieadat ud fudi.More complex answer:Oompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-doI have a perfect puzzle for youOompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-deeIf you are wise, you'll listen to meWhat do you get when you guzzle down sweets?Eating as much as an elephant eatsWhat are you at getting terribly fat?What do you think will come of that?Clear enough now? YES!!! POST OF THE YEAR!!!! and walters?... you posted this question on 7 other forums over the last 6 years and its as dumb now as it was then. Pro audio recording my ass:freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L_Z_nut Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 YES!!! POST OF THE YEAR!!!! Wow... ummm. * starts to cry* ohhh, this is sooo unexpected.There's soo many people to thank I don't know where to start. I'd like to thank my dad for banging my mom. I'd like to thank my mom for pushing me out and not having an abortion. I'm not thanking my borther cause he's a prick. I'm getting the "wrap it up" sign... ummm everyone else I forgot as well. Thanks again. *comes back to reality* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Walters9515 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 explain the basics of voice leading using root,3rd,5th ? Then how do u use voice leading using 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths? Whats the difference between these Two types of voice leading techniques? How do u approach voice leading using 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 explain the basics of voice leading using root,3rd,5th ? Then how do u use voice leading using 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths? Whats the difference between these Two types of voice leading techniques? How do u approach voice leading using 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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