Tonewheel Hammond alternatives

[Karnevil]

I haven't test driven a C1 yet but I have been checking out the electro for EPs and Clavs. I don't understand the C1's use of the electro keybed. Wrong keybed for playing organ. Feels too much like a digital piano. Lack of draw bars bugs me too. The Clavia tonewheel emulation does sound good but it doesn't sounds as realistic to me as the Korgs (CX-3/BX-3) do. Korg nailed all the nuances - keybed, leakage, OD, even the dirty rotaional hiss of a choraling Leslie while its sit idle waiting for you to play - sounds just like my old 147. Buy a Korg.

 

 

Ehh, let me get this right... You haven't tried the C1, and then you go on telling us that the C1 is this and that. Get a grip...

[ZeroZero]

Drove 200 miles and checked out the KeyB Duo. Its INCREDIBLE!!!

Finally a clone that makes no compromise. The only thing I can see that is missing are the preset keys. The whole deal is very chunky and well made and the sound just blew me away. I am even thinking the days of humping around Hammonds are over, this is VERY giggable.

The Leslie imitation is real good to my ears - I can actually hear the different rotars. You can of course plug in a real Leslie, but you can use the earphone socket and get a rotary sound when practsing at 3 am. This thing also has midi in and out and touch sensitive keys when not in hammond mode - so you can rig it to other gear too. All controls look and act very authentic, basicicaly this thing SMELLS like a Hammond.
No way was I expecting to buy one, I was just curious, but now I am

[loxley11]

Roland VK-8, VK-88 - controls not authentic, non waterfall keys?

 

 

The VK-7 did not have a waterfall keybed, but the VK-8 definitely does, and I assume the 88 would as well, being in the "8" lineup. In fact, I tested all of the major clonewheels' keybeds (except the korg, which I couldn't find locally) and found the VK's keybed to be the best, which was a major part of why I got it. It felt way more solid and smooth than the electro, and I felt even edged out the keybed on the hammond. You might consider using one of their keybeds to build your monster; it'd save you some weight fo shizzle.

 

I'm not trying to stoke the flames of the clonewheel wars any further, but I didn't want you to rule out what was in my opinion an excellent keybed because your info wasn't up to date. The controls are not in the authentic place, however.

 

Drew

[Musicale]

O2

Do report on the experience when you are able. 3000 Euros oh Boy!

Regards

[mate_stubb]

 

The VK-7 did not have a waterfall keybed, but the VK-8 definitely does, and I assume the 88 would as well, being in the "8" lineup. In fact, I tested all of the major clonewheels' keybeds (except the korg, which I couldn't find locally) and found the VK's keybed to be the best, which was a major part of why I got it.

 

 

I checked, and you are correct sir - thanks for the update. If this is the same keybed as was used on the V-Combo, then I agree - it feels superb. Like buttah.

[Outkaster]

Roland should stay out of the clone business.

[loxley11]

Roland should stay out of the clone business.

 

 

or maybe they should just sell their keybeds to all the other clones' manufacturers. Seriously though, I don't think I'd be seeing Rolands in all the high dollar acts I did if they were that terrible. I realize musicians get paid to use certain equipment, but they can refuse to play crap, too. And I don't think you can base your opinion entirely on having sat in on a friends rig at one show. At least that's the only experience you've mentioned on the forum.

[The Real MC]

Roland should stay out of the clone business.

 

 

+1 their VR-760 would've rocked if they had a way to put piano and synth sounds on SEPARATE OUTPUTS.

[Outkaster]

No I have experience and heard it a lot of times. I have not seen Joey D or Tony Monaco using Roland stuff. I mean it is not that bad but I don't see it on a lot of pro rigs. I had a Roland XP-50 with the 60's and 70's expansion board and it would get lost in live mixes and sounded thin. I would put an CX-3, Electro and Xk series anytime up against a Roland for Hammond sounds.

[cram1960]

Just wanted to add the Creamware B4000 (now Sonic-Core) to the list. I don't own one, and haven't heard it, except in demos but here it is.

Here's a review: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug06/articles/creamware.htm

[ZeroZero]

Key B duo report:
OK so some wanted to know what the KeyB is like. I have been playing it for three months - its the best clone I have ever heard and I would definitely buy another one but...

It came three weeks late

The first one had a fault with the transpose key which sent the midi into spasms. Also the wood case was not finished well.

the second one was the same with the transpose key thing - fixed. Case was fine.

No manual exists in English there is an italian manual but I still have not got one
I have sent 4 emails to the website and no answer even after weeks and weeks. Zero back up from them.
Got good back up from the UK dealer stayed with me until it was fixed - lots of hassle for all. He did not have the manual though I think he might have one now.

But! It is really worth it the sound is great. Personally I cant distinguish between mine and a real one.

The Leslie emulation is about as good as you could expect from stereo

Its very well built (apart from the transpose button) . Metal and wood construction, lovely ivory color keys.

SOme of the tablets I still do not understand as I have no manual .i.e. the 'local' tablets.

No pedals but can take pedals.

Pitch bend, mod wheel midi in and out and thru I think. I havent used them, I am a little worried that one cannot use it as a controller as the hammond souind may not be silencable - maybe you can - oh for a manaul.


Its heavy and the soft wheely case cost

[chevybusa]

I am by no means an organ expert, in fact I've never even played a Hammond or heard one live, so I can't compare, but I can tell you that the Kurzweil PC2R has an amazing organ feature called the KB-3. You can control a ton of different parameters, from the major ones down to really small details. To my ears it sounds absolutely amazing.

[Outkaster]

If you buy one and are not familiar with the Real Hammond sound, you might be thrown by the retro feel of the reverb overdrive etc, but to my ears even though they sound archaic and frankly silly compared with convulution reverb of the Sydney Opera House I use on m y sequencer, they are part of THAT sound. This is a very serious contender to the real thing - Despite all my troubles this is a definite Vote FOR the KeyB you can fogive a lot for a piece of quality kit like this. Would have been nice to be able to balance the levels of the two manuals n contrast against eachother via a dial. Would have been good to see a USB port for my laptop. Zero

 

 

Was it worth it?

[Musicale]

How true Mate Stubb. They even have a model in front of them to copy. Just copy the damn thing and get it over with !! Evrybody has their own little trip.

Regards,

[Musicale]

How true Mate Stubb. Just copy the damn thing and get it over with. It can't be that hard. It's hard to improve on perfection and duplication is the sincerest form of flattery.

[augerinn]

Actually, unless you're a Hammond Professional, I don't get all the complaints over the clones.

To my ears, they all sound pretty damm good. And, I know for a fact that Joe 6 pack isn't sitting there in the audience saying to himself "Ya know, that Nord sounds pretty convincing, but I think the key click isn't quite right....."

I've owned a Nord Elctro, and played B4 through a laptop. In both cases, my band mates were absolutlely floored by the sounds.

[mate_stubb]

 

Actually, unless you're a Hammond Professional, I don't get all the complaints over the clones.

 

 

Well, there ya go. Some of us ARE professional organists, and have played Hammonds for decades. We know the difference between a fine instrument with soul, and a compromise instrument whose first requirement is that it can be carried under one arm.

 

I don't particularly care if the audience knows the difference or not. I play for myself first, audience second.

[Outkaster]

Yeah same here. Could I play some Roland or Korg organ patch and be satisfied? Probably not. I would never be able to get by the sound unless it was a dedicated clone. I mean the real thing is the best answer but logistically not possible for most of us.

[kikedeolivos]

 

...I play for myself first, audience second...

 

 

+1

[mate_stubb]

Outkaster,

 

Here's a sneak preview of my Hammond midi controller. I've eliminated the key stacks and found leaf action push switches that approximate the same feel.

 

I designed some switch multiplexor boards using a diode matrix to feed the convertor which outputs midi.

 

This should allow a 2 piece controller with authentic hammond action and controls, top piece aiming for 30 lbs while the bottom manual should come in around 20 lbs.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Cool do you think you will use anyother old hardware besides the keys?

[mate_stubb]

 

Cool do you think you will use anyother old hardware besides the keys?

 

 

It uses the following original parts:

 

keys, key channels

rear key mounting bars

key combs

preset latching mechanisms

lower keystop felts

front rail / upstop felts

drawbar tray / drawbars

vib tabs and control box

perc tabs and control box

half moon switch

 

The vibrato switch box will be canned in favor of a simple rotating switch. I may use a chicken beak knob instead of the original because it is easier to glance at and see how it is set on a dark stage.

 

So in other words, everything you can see and touch from the player's perspective (except possibly the vib selector knob) will be 100% authentic B-3.

[Roald]

I played a real M3 lately, I really -wanted- to like it..but I didn't, really. OK, the sound is nice and alive but not really significantly more than my Nord...that gets me 97% there and that is enough. The organ was not functioning 100% and it was not loud at all, so the guy who sold it, demonstrated it though a horrid Fender transistor amp and an even more horrid Korg G4 lesliesim (what people like about those is a mystery to me, especially when you hear the Nord

[mate_stubb]

Dude, sorry for your bad experience, but playing a broken spinet through a horrid transistor amp and horrid sim, what the hell did you expect?

[TheB3Nut]

Well, it's a Hammond! They should all sound like God no matter what!