Phil O'Keefe Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 That's GREAT! Excellent job! :phil: Read his comments - it may not be the exact way that Johnny Marr (who is, IMHO, one of the best "textural" guitarists ever) did it (IIRC, he did use two separate Fenders, with the speed slightly different on each), but this guy really nailed the tone and feel. Nice job with the reverse reverb too. All in all, a very well done video - thanks for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members darryl2112 Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 was in F# tuning. I wanted a very swampy sound, a modern bayou song. It's a straight E riff, followed by open G and F#m7. The chorus uses open B, A, and D shapes with the top two strings ringing out. The vibrato sound is {censored}ing incredible, and it took a long time. I put down the rhythm track on an Epiphone Casino through a Fender Twin Reverb without vibrato. Then we played the track back through four old Twins, one on each side. We had to keep all the amps vibratoing in time to the track and each other, so we had to keep stopping and starting the track, recording it in 10-second bursts. This sounds incredibly egotistical, but I wanted an intro that was almost as potent as "Layla" -- when that song plays in a club or a pub, everyone knows what it is instantly. "How Soon Is Now" is certainly one of the most identifiable songs I've done, and it's the track most people talk to me about. I wish I could remember exactly how we did the slide part -- not writing it down is one of the banes of my life! We did it in three passes through a harmonizer, set to some weird interval, like a sixth. There was a different harmonization for each pass. For the line in harmonics, I retuned the guitar so that I could play it all at the 12th fret with natural harmonics. It's doubled several times. I remember when I younger asking this old guy how the hell did the Isley Brothers get this one sound and he told me "you can do all sorts of weird things in the studio,kid." That guy in the video is probably using a plug in on his cpu to get those sounds, which is far easier than doing it with a pedal, or 12 twin reverbs,imho. Marr may have used a DAT back then for this sound at shows, I am pretty sure now he has a guy running one of the DigiDesign boards that I see so many times at big shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fiery Furnace Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iluvnoise Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 I don't know who Johnny Marr is Immediately go out and buy Hatful of Hollow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members red_riviera Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 I don't know who Johnny Marr is .... Let Noel enlighten you: [YOUTUBE]Y1MsuoNJQ3U[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kubenzi Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 Dont forget not of all of his nice riffs are twenty yrs old [YOUTUBE]mmm_SjUAK7I[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SammyHawk Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's simple left and right panning. Listen to the record. He used 2xFender Twins if im correct and a boss PN-2. Well Im pretty sure it was the PN-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicVI Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's simple left and right panning. Listen to the record.He used 2xFender Twins if im correct and a boss PN-2. Well Im pretty sure it was the PN-2. The PN-2 didn't come out until about 1990 or 91, long after than song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 I feel like the trem on an amp has a much more obvious pitch bend. It's not incredibly obvious, but it's a tiny side effect that i don't think pedals do... but i'm not replying so much because i have a trem suggestion for you, instead, i just wanted to state my opinion that "HOW SOON IS NOW" IS THE BEST SONG OF THE 80s !!!! When i was young, a preteen in the mid 90s, the alternative rock stations played that song all the time, and I didn't like it. I didn't understand it. But now, 13 years later, I absolutely adore it, the irony in the lyrics and vocal sound, how it captures such a mood so innovatively. I adore it. Nowadays, those stations in San Diego aren't playing the Smiths so much, but they play tons of Pearl Jam. I wonder if there are young kids around who don't understand "Jeremy" in the same way i misunderstood "How Soon is Now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members morpha2 Posted February 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 I feel like the trem on an amp has a much more obvious pitch bend. It's not incredibly obvious, but it's a tiny side effect that i don't think pedals do... but i'm not replying so much because i have a trem suggestion for you, instead, i just wanted to state my opinion that"HOW SOON IS NOW" IS THE BEST SONG OF THE 80s !!!!When i was young, a preteen in the mid 90s, the alternative rock stations played that song all the time, and I didn't like it. I didn't understand it. But now, 13 years later, I absolutely adore it, the irony in the lyrics and vocal sound, how it captures such a mood so innovatively. I adore it. Nowadays, those stations in San Diego aren't playing the Smiths so much, but they play tons of Pearl Jam. I wonder if there are young kids around who don't understand "Jeremy" in the same way i misunderstood "How Soon is Now." Man, I'm right with you on that! I didn't much "get it" either. And I was probably listening to those same San Diego stations--91X, the Flash, etc... Seeing Morrissey's band do it at the Hollywood Bowl last summer was practically life-affirming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jules-RM Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 I feel like the trem on an amp has a much more obvious pitch bend. It's not incredibly obvious, but it's a tiny side effect that i don't think pedals do... It's heavily multi-tracked. Johnny was a big fan of the Spector "wall of sound" and played many different guitar riffs over the same parts, some mixed so low they are hard to pick out. He was also pretty fond of odd tunings. You can't buy a Johnny Marr pedal, sorry. God has to give you one, and I think he only made the one prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stonedtone Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hmm...the tap tempo stuff is probably a little too sophisticated for my needs. I'm thinking more along the lines of the severe depth that Marr got than trying to nail that song tempo-wise. I've had my Demeter trem for years and it'd the warmest, full sounding trem that I'd found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members finboy Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 {censored} me, he did a good job of that. i'm going to have to try out some stuff when i get my pedals right and try some of the tips from that. anyone recognize the drum machine or how he hooked it up to the computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stonedtone Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's heavily multi-tracked. Johnny was a big fan of the Spector "wall of sound" and played many different guitar riffs over the same parts, some mixed so low they are hard to pick out. He was also pretty fond of odd tunings.You can't buy a Johnny Marr pedal, sorry. God has to give you one, and I think he only made the one prototype. I remember reading an interview with him and he said they never documented what they did to get that sound. He said that's one thing that's always bothered him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members finboy Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 i'm actually curious to see if that clip could be pulled off all at once with a rigged up pedal board. looper, reverse reverb, delay to help the reverb (maybe even reverse it further), drum machine, compressor that clip gives me gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 {censored} me, he did a good job of that.i'm going to have to try out some stuff when i get my pedals right and try some of the tips from that. anyone recognize the drum machine or how he hooked it up to the computer? According to the comments, he hooked up the output of the drum machine to the side chain input of a compressor so that the drum machine triggers the compressor, creating the volume fluctuations. Unless he was running Pro Tools HD, I don't think he was able to pull that off with a software compressor - smart money would bet that it was an external (hardware) compressor, and then that was fed into PT for recording. The model of the drum machine is unimportant - the important thing is the speed, the multitracking of the part at least twice, with slight differences in the speed setting on the drum machines for each pass, so that when you pan the two (or more) tracks left and right, you get timing variations in the trems, and the corresponding phasing. Because the drum machine is only being used as a side chain trigger for the compressor, the sound you use - even the drum machine model itself - is not that important, because it's not a part of the audio signal path - just a trigger source. As long as you use a short sound as the trigger, with a very fast attack and minimal sustain / decay (such as a side stick, stick clicks or metronome "click"), you should get similar results, regardless of what drum machine you use as the trigger source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fiery Furnace Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 What Phil said (as usual ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members finboy Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 According to the comments, he hooked up the output of the drum machine to the side chain input of a compressor so that the drum machine triggers the compressor, creating the volume fluctuations. Unless he was running Pro Tools HD, I don't think he was able to pull that off with a software compressor - smart money would bet that it was an external (hardware) compressor, and then that was fed into PT for recording.The model of the drum machine is unimportant - the important thing is the speed, the multitracking of the part at least twice, with slight differences in the speed setting on the drum machines for each pass, so that when you pan the two (or more) tracks left and right, you get timing variations in the trems, and the corresponding phasing. Because the drum machine is only being used as a side chain trigger for the compressor, the sound you use - even the drum machine model itself - is not that important, because it's not a part of the audio signal path - just a trigger source. As long as you use a short sound as the trigger, with a very fast attack and minimal sustain / decay (such as a side stick, stick clicks or metronome "click"), you should get similar results, regardless of what drum machine you use as the trigger source. could an extremely short delay trigger a similar effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Depends on what you feed the delay, and how you have it set. Basically, as long as the delay is set to a single repeat, and you use a sound going into the delay with a fast envelope (quick attack, quick release, no sustain), you could probably do that. But I don't see why you'd want to. And remember - the delay itself, if inserted into the compressor's side chain input, will NOT be audible as sound - it's just going to trigger the compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kittycaster Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's not exactly the same sound, but we were experimenting one day with two trems in series, in this case the amp trem on a Vibrolux and a Semaphore on the floor. Mess with the speeds on both and very interesting things start happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's not exactly the same sound, but we were experimenting one day with two trems in series, in this case the amp trem on a Vibrolux and a Semaphore on the floor. Mess with the speeds on both and very interesting things start happening. Good point Kitty. Of course, there are also some trems with dual parallel trem capabilities, such as the Lovetone Wobulator. If I was going to try to do HSIN live, that's probably what I'd use; and I'd set the speeds of the two LFO's slightly differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members finboy Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 Good point Kitty. Of course, there are also some trems with dual parallel trem capabilities, such as the Lovetone Wobulator. If I was going to try to do HSIN live, that's probably what I'd use; and I'd set the speeds of the two LFO's slightly differently. http://cgi.ebay.com/Clough-Brengle-Modulator-Motorized-Sweep-Gen-Wobulator_W0QQitemZ260127902323QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3284QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem thats not badly priced, pretty big though :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BmoreTele Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 Good point Kitty. Of course, there are also some trems with dual parallel trem capabilities, such as the Lovetone Wobulator. If I was going to try to do HSIN live, that's probably what I'd use; and I'd set the speeds of the two LFO's slightly differently. Are the two trem LFO's on the Wobulator running in series or parallel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Are the two trem LFO's on the Wobulator running in series or parallel? Primarily parallel, but you have several possible options with the Wob. Check out this link for more details. FWIW, I really like mine - despite the large size and high cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 According to the comments, he hooked up the output of the drum machine to the side chain input of a compressor so that the drum machine triggers the compressor, creating the volume fluctuations. Unless he was running Pro Tools HD, I don't think he was able to pull that off with a software compressor - smart money would bet that it was an external (hardware) compressor, and then that was fed into PT for recording. HSIN is a little early for heavy software processing, I think. I'm thinking it's hardware. And running a trem pedal into a trem amp is a great sound. Especially if it's a bias vary trem, like a tweed, or a brown princeton or brown vibroverb. Great syncopated throb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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