WOT: England knife/gun crime

[NetStar]

I honestly can't stand the British binge culture. I'm 22 and don't really drink that much. Not saying that I haven't binged, as I do occasionally but the whole culture, which is seemingly only glorified over here with TV shows like 'Booze Britain' is pretty gross.

 

 

 

+ 1

i drink. I go down the pub, have a pint, a game of pool. I've been drunk. And yeah, I find the whole binge culture disgusting. Don't anyone tell me it's all the media, I see it all first hand.

[EvilSoup]

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I guess this Bill Hick's bit doesn't really apply anymore does it?

[IvIark]

I don't think it's a case of 'the few' anymore. it's gone beyond some small hardcore minority. With alcohol, you're seeing prices being reduced to a never before seen level. It is absurd that a pint of Stella Artois may cost about

[satannica]

I used to live in a very gang-oriented borough of london.

The few times I reported crimes, the officer in charge was more concerned that I referred to the person as "black" than anything else.

Its all racial and its very violent. Its not a nice thing.

But that said, I don't think many places are as bad as the media makes out. You wouldn't catch me in Hackney for example, its a {censored}ing slime pit. Brixton, Tottenham and some areas of Croydon are pretty terrible too. But that said, as long as you know how to handle yourself and don't get mixed up in the {censored}.

Ever wonder why people walk past people getting beat up in the street? Because it could mean a stab in the throat! Think I'm being unrealistic?

[NetStar]

Personally I think they should introduce a new law where anyone who looks under the age of 30 has to provide proof of age when purchasing alcohol - and it has to be a respected form of ID such as passport or a legitimately recognised ID card with a photo. Any shopkeeper who doesn't comply shouldn't be allowed to sell alcohol. .

 

 

 

Thelaw already says 21! And besides, no one recognises {censored}ing photo cards, it's Drivers' license and passport only. Even govt approved ones get rejected in the cities, and you can't stand and argue the law at the bar.

 

 

but I do agree, the Police need to be allowed to poontang those youngsters. Police need to strike fear into the hearts of the young. Like I believe all Met Police should be armed.

[NetStar]

But that said, as long as you know how to handle yourself and don't get mixed up in the {censored}. Ever wonder why people walk past people getting beat up in the street? Because it could mean a stab in the throat! Think I'm being unrealistic?

 

 

Well, I was thinking about this today. I could handle myself against one or maybe two people at a push. Thing is, these twats don't hang around and start on people in ones or twos. It's mini gangs of four up. Four to one? {censored} that {censored}. Bring knives into the equation and it doesn't balance out either...

[IvIark]

 

You wouldn't catch me in Hackney for example, its a {censored}ing slime pit. Brixton, Tottenham and some areas of Croydon are pretty terrible too. But that said, as long as you know how to handle yourself and don't get mixed up in the {censored}.

 

 

It's funny, in the late 80s I used to go out with my mates to The Banshee and Jilly's in Manchester and I didn't have much money and I frequently spent everything I had getting in the club and on beer. At the end of the night I didn't have enough for a taxi or even a bus, so I used to walk home through Moss Side, Hulme and Old Trafford and never once did I have any trouble whatsoever despite the fact that those areas, and Moss Side in particular, always used to get slated in the media because of the violence there.

 

I don't think I'd do it today.

[IvIark]

Like I believe all Met Police should be armed.

 

One of my binge drinking buddies is an armed response copper. He's not allowed to bring it out with him though unfortunately!

 

It'd never kick off in my local if he had a Heckler and Koch on his lap!

[HeartfeltDawn]

What happens when the lager louts cotton on and start drinking wine? It may still be cheaper than going out, and sometimes we may think we're becoming outnumbered, but the fact remains that there are fewer violent binge drinkers in this country than sensible(ish*) drinkers. And it isn't a big labour policy to price poorer people out of a beer at home whilst leaving the rich unbothered (apart from the new road tax debacle). And to be honest would 25p a can bother a 17 year old who deals in a bit of skunk anyway? It'll just end up another tax cash cow and why should the government benefit any more from the law-abiding people who are already over taxed in this country? Over taxing beer would be the equivalent of adding a new super tax on cars to try to price 17 to 20 year old males out of driving - because they cause the most accidents. We don't need yet another tax, we just need to be allowed to use the law to stop criminal behaviour and that includes underage purchasing of alcohol or supplying alcohol to a minor - not just violence or anti-social behaviour. Personally I think they should introduce a new law where anyone who looks under the age of 30 has to provide proof of age when purchasing alcohol - and it has to be a respected form of ID such as passport or a legitimately recognised ID card with a photo. Any shopkeeper who doesn't comply shouldn't be allowed to sell alcohol. * by sensible(ish) I mean that it is quite frankly none of the governments or anyone elses business if someone drinks too much but does so lawfully. In the same way that it isn't the governments business if you eat too much lawfully.

If the lager louts ever caught onto wine, they'd find it a damn sight harder to knock back like Fosters. if they then tried attacking me, I'd be able to compliment them on their choice of chablis and recommend them a couple of good cheeses to go with their wine once they'd finished pumelling me

I'm just putting forward some potential taxation ideals. I'd like to get the balance right between not {censored}ing over the man at home wanting a beer and making it more expensive for the 16 year old buying booze underage and causing {censored}. If I were allowed to add my punitive tax, I'd want it coming into my account for my own crime prevention plans and some schemes to help people who have been affected by crime. Obviously this involves me being Prime MInster and Chancellor at the same time and not letting the the Treasury bastards to get anywhere near my money! But the basic thing is there is a massive disparity between licensed establishment booze prices and supermarket booze prices and something needs to be done to close that gap.

And yes, I would arm cops. A friend of mine works for Thames Valley, been on the beat for about four years now and he's seeing things getting worse. He works in Reading, hardly a quiet area.

Personally I think they should introduce a new law where anyone who looks under the age of 30 has to provide proof of age when purchasing alcohol - and it has to be a respected form of ID such as passport or a legitimately recognised ID card with a photo. Any shopkeeper who doesn't comply shouldn't be allowed to sell alcohol.

I agree. That's more along the lines of the Canadian system. true story: when I married, I was 24 and my then wife was 20. After the wedding, we went out with some of her friends and a couple of my friends who had flown from the Uk to Toronto. Both of my friends were 25. the first bar we went to, we were refused service because the English contingent couldn't prove they were over 21. Being all 24 and over, we didn't think we'd need cards. My wife's friends all had their fake ID with them. The reason we weren't allowed to stay was because of the smoking laws. They were incredibly tough on underage smoking. If you couldn't prove you were of legal age to smoke, they wouldn't even let you in the bar at that time. So if the Canucks were like that with fags, you can imagine how they are with alcohol.

In the same way that it isn't the governments business if you eat too much lawfully

They'd do it if they could...

Drugs do play a part too. Bath has a very laidback image but the last couple of years has seen a lot more coke and crack around and there's been some really nasty {censored} going on there.

[HeartfeltDawn]

One of my binge drinking buddies is an armed response copper. He's not allowed to bring it out with him though unfortunately! It'd never kick off in my local if he had a Heckler and Koch on his lap!

We need armed cops who look like Screamin' Jay Hawkins, a special Armed Voodoo Branch.

[IvIark]

 

But the basic thing is there is a massive disparity between licensed establishment booze prices and supermarket booze prices and something needs to be done to close that gap.

 

 

I don't think the gap is necessarily because the shop price is too cheap, but more because the pub prices are too expensive. But I accept that the pub prices have to be ridiculous because they've got staff to pay, tax, rent, tax, rates, tax, furnishings, tax, utilities, as well as making a healthy profit that will keep the investors happy etc etc etc. Without those overheads there's no reason at all why a can of Fosters should be close in cash terms to a pint in a pub. In the same way as it doesn't cost

[HeartfeltDawn]

A lot of pubs are in the financial {censored} right now because people aren't going out as much. In the town where I last worked as a chef, there's probably around 12 pubs there. Five are on the market now. The trade is in the {censored} so you get more pubs going into the whole gastropub enterprise. Again, that's very Canadian. I remember going out one lunchtime in the second week I was living there. I'd spent the day going out prepping up the food list for my wedding as I was doing the catering. it got to 2pm, been out all morning in the cold in January so I thought I'd stop in a bar and have a beer. I opened the front door, walked in and a cheery staff member said 'Hi, woudl you like a table for lunch?'

'No thanks', I replied, 'I'm just here for a couple of beers'. She looked at me as if I'd asked her if they served cat vomit by the pint. I got the feeling liquid lunches weren't quite the same thing in Toronto as they were back in the UK...

Like I said earlier, the biggest single difference in buying alcohol in Toronto was that the supermarkets didn't sell it and your local newsagent didn't sell it either. It makes people go to either the Beer Store or the LCBO to buy their booze. That makes it far easier to crack down on underage purchasing of alcohol. This is the LCBO (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) website's page on social responsibilities along with Wikipedia stuff on the LCBO and the Beer Store:

http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibility/alcoholminors.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor_Control_Board_of_Ontario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Store

To me, it's a far better system to make sure underage drinkers don't purchase alcohol than we have here in the UK.

And don't cosh all people with hoodies. I still have mine from Canada. You need a hoodie in a country that cold over the winter! One of the funniest sights I saw out there was one April after the snows finally melted. Bars had their patios open, the sun was bright and patrons were sat outside in gloves and hats enjoying an ice-cold pint as it was still -12 C outside. That's dedication.

[IvIark]

A lot of the pubs round here are going to {censored} because of the smoking ban, but that was one of the warnings many licensees gave when the law was decided. Some of the pubs tried to counteract the lost customers by increasing prices on their remaining customers, but now a lot of pubs are dead during the week.

 

I smoke but always hated sitting in a badly ventilated pub that got too smokey. But I wish they'd jut brought a ventilation law in or separated smoking areas, now all the clubs smell of B.O instead which is delightful.

[HeartfeltDawn]

Toronto's had the smoking ban for a while now, longer than Ireland I think. Originally in Ontario places were allowed to have Designated Smoking Room's (DSR's) providing they met strict requirements. In the end they were scrapped after many establishemnts had already shelled out because waiting staff would have to enter these DSR's and therefore be exposed to smoke at work. It's one of the drawbacks of the 'sit on your ass and have people wait on you' culture. I'm much more of a traditional wait at the bar man.

DSR's would work far better in this country than Canada but I imagine red tape would make it unworkable. You'd have to have staff agree to work in those areas which means more paperwork. I smoke and I don't mind going to a non-smoking place but it's still a pisser to have nowhere to have a fag and a pint. What annoys me even more are railway stations. Being out here in the sticks, my main station doesn't even have a toilet. It has enough sheltered covering for four people. Yet under the laws of this land, I could be fined for sitting on the edge of Platform 1 metres away from anyone as the whole area is an enclosed space.

One day, I will have money and I will form my own private club and it will be all about wine, cheese, guitars and smoking. Perhaps pornography too. I'll call it the de Sade Club

[rawk100]

Kids aren't taught to respect authority anymore. They don't respect authority whether they're sober or drunk. When you're young you have yet to live and learn. These people don't understand the consequences of their violent actions. Prison isn't a deterent to many of these young criminals and by the time they get to prison the damage is already done anyway. I don't think its a Jeckle and Hyde thing, i.e people turn into murderers after a swig of a drink. They are just violent kids/people anyway cause they've been bought up that way and exposed to that type of culture. I don't care if you drink yourself to death but don't pick a fight cause you're drunk.

[Loobs]

I used to live in a very gang-oriented borough of london. The few times I reported crimes, the officer in charge was more concerned that I referred to the person as "black" than anything else. Its all racial and its very violent. Its not a nice thing. But that said, I don't think many places are as bad as the media makes out. You wouldn't catch me in Hackney for example, its a {censored}ing slime pit. Brixton, Tottenham and some areas of Croydon are pretty terrible too. But that said, as long as you know how to handle yourself and don't get mixed up in the {censored}. Ever wonder why people walk past people getting beat up in the street? Because it could mean a stab in the throat! Think I'm being unrealistic?

 

 

Meh, Hackney is a great area. I just moved from there and wish I was still there - there's loads happening and great nightlife, eating and culture. Every area has bad parts. There are council estates in South Kensington & St. John's Wood.

[NetStar]

One day, I will have money and I will form my own private club and it will be all about wine, cheese, guitars and smoking. Perhaps pornography too. I'll call it the de Sade Club

I'll waitress for you.

[Loobs]

18th teenager stabbed to death today, in South London. What the {censored} is going on with this city. Are scumbag kids hearing the news and doing 'copy-cat' killings or what? Utterly sick.

[HeartfeltDawn]

I'll waitress for you.

Staff will be encouraged to wear buttless leather chaps as often as possible. I'm sure I could find a 28" waist pair somewhere. There will be different bars for different purposes, at least one purpose being fairly immoral in some societies.

Hmmm. We need a sports bar because alcohol and sport go together. A bar dedicated to music and pool would be good. Maybe a porn bar too.

[space cred]

Toronto's had the smoking ban for a while now, longer than Ireland I think. Originally in Ontario places were allowed to have Designated Smoking Room's (DSR's) providing they met strict requirements. In the end they were scrapped after many establishemnts had already shelled out because waiting staff would have to enter these DSR's and therefore be exposed to smoke at work. It's one of the drawbacks of the 'sit on your ass and have people wait on you' culture. I'm much more of a traditional wait at the bar man. DSR's would work far better in this country than Canada but I imagine red tape would make it unworkable. You'd have to have staff agree to work in those areas which means more paperwork. I smoke and I don't mind going to a non-smoking place but it's still a pisser to have nowhere to have a fag and a pint. What annoys me even more are railway stations. Being out here in the sticks, my main station doesn't even have a toilet. It has enough sheltered covering for four people. Yet under the laws of this land, I could be fined for sitting on the edge of Platform 1 metres away from anyone as the whole area is an enclosed space. One day, I will have money and I will form my own private club and it will be all about wine, cheese, guitars and smoking. Perhaps pornography too. I'll call it the de Sade Club

come back to T.O., i'll be your vice-president!

interesting thread though, especially since I've worked at the LCBO (liquor store) and now at a pub (run by brits, all the regulars are brits, which is amazing for me because I can talk aboot football at work and not stared at)

speaking of which.. out of curiosity, cause sentanta certainly doesn't talk aboot it... is football violence still a problem?, or rather, what's the status of football violence? I don't want to open up a whole can of worms here, I'm just wondering.. if I visit england.. should I pretend not to know what football is?

[Loobs]

Yes, football violence still exists.

[HeartfeltDawn]

Football violence is what will come to Toronto if that football team of yours ever gets good

Football violence still goes on but personally I think it's a far worse problem in other parts of Europe. The racism in particular in other countries is obnoxious. For example, Tottenham's Pascal Chimbonda suffered a lot of racist abuse from his own fans when he was playing for the French club Bastia (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/pascal-chimbonda-pressure-on-the-manager-no-he-doesnt-have-any-pressure-hes-the-best-manager-who-has-come-to-tottenham-402415.html). Italian football clubs like Lazio has had a long association with far right groups and there's s strong right-wing racist element in Eastern Europe. Italy suffered badly last year with the Catania problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Catania_football_violence) and the Ermanno Licursi incident prior to that (http://www.soccertimes.com/international/2007/feb02.htm).

Nobody would say racism and 'club versus club' violence is dead in English football supporterdom but there have been great efforts made to stamp it out. Compared to other European leagues and certainly to the {censored}ing insanity that is fan violence in the Argentinian league, English football isn't too bad. Check out these articles on Agentinian football violence:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/nov/14/europeanfootball.sport1

http://www.playthegame.org/News/Up_To_Date/Argentina_bans_visiting_supporters_amid_escalating_football_violence_10082.aspx

[space cred]

yeah, that's the general impression I had.

regarding potential football violence in toronto... It'll never happen (for a lot of reasons) but a big one being we seem to be the only north american city that really cares. 2nd year in existence and we dominate attendance, noise levels etc etc.

its tough watching Toronto FC though.. as much as I want to love and support (and I do), the quality is horrendous sometimes, of course I'm used to watching the premiership.

edit: Paul Dickov and Darren Huckabee spotted in the stands at a TFC home game! yeah! send us your 35 year old talent! I'm not even joking.. I love any player nicknamed 'the pest'

[L_Z_nut]

Move to a suburb area of Ontario, all the kids are a bunch of pussies 'round here.

 

Two kids, one with a knife, tried to rob me and 2 friends one day. When they asked for our wallets, my friend said come get them. They stood there for about 10secs, then the other one said "LLL... Let's go man" and took off running. We laughed our asses off.

[Loobs]

Move to a suburb area of Ontario, all the kids are a bunch of pussies 'round here. Two kids, one with a knife, tried to rob me and 2 friends one day. When they asked for our wallets, my friend said come get them. They stood there for about 10secs, then the other one said "LLL... Let's go man" and took off running. We laughed our asses off.

 

 

You're pretty stupid tbh...you really woulda been laughing if they'd have stabbed you.