Members akliner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Its a different form of skill, hopefully one that can be appreciated on its own. It DOES make him a great keyboardist. What it doesnt (automatically) do is make him a great MUSICIAN, only you can do that. If music doesnt speak to you, it doesnt speak to you. But there are certain, defined parameters that make a great instrumentalist. Likability is generally not one of them, thats in the eye of the beholder. I dont know this guys stuff or DT very well, I have only seen a few clips posted here. Clearly, the guy has the skillz to pay the billz. What is "masturbatory" to some is genius to others, there is no right or wrong. Playingwise, there IS right or wrong, and that cat is right. He has taken it seriously, put in the hours, and has had inhuman patience like all great instrumentalists have. He's a classical guy in rock clothing. I mean, I guess I see it that way, too. And I definitely respect his "chops". Taste level, though...eh...I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cygnus64 Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I mean, I guess I see it that way, too. And I definitely respect his "chops". Good. Too often, I find (not in your case or anyones in particular) that certain people literally "penalize" musicians for being "good", or in other fields for being "educated". My girlfriend has been turned down for jobs for being "overqualified". Overqualified??? Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard, if she didnt WANT the job she wouldnt have applied. Turning someone down because they are too good? Mozart is not one of my favorites. If a classical colleague hears me say that, they look at me like I am retarded. That's taste. I am not obligated to like him, however if I didnt see the talent and skill, indeed I would be retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Another fascinating keyboardist is Richard Barbieri. I started listening to him when he collaborated with Steve Jansen:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_BarbieriBarbieri covers keyboards for Porcupine Tree, another very talented and interesting band, led by Steven Wilson. I have many of PT's tunes in my iPod.http://www.porcupinetree.com/background.cfmdefinitely worth a listenThere's no doubt that every member of Dream Theater is amazingly talented, but Porcupine Tree is 10 times the band that Dream Theater is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't think that Rudess has had much of a creative input on the song structure of later DT songs. AFAIK, most of the song writing, especially after Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, was done by Portnoy and Petrucci. After Moore left, I really always thought of DT as a guitar and drum based band with a decent vocalist and shredder KB and bass players backing them up. Maybe that is where you guys are coming from as KB players? Ragtime breaks, lol. I think they fit in during a live set one and only one time in a live show to break tension, add some humor, and entertain the crowd, especially during an encore... as long as the break doesn't interrupt *my* particular favorite song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 There's no doubt that every member of Dream Theater is amazingly talented, but Porcupine Tree is 10 times the band that Dream Theater is. I really like Porcupine Tree a lot too - I have all their stuff. You comment is interesting to me because now that I think of it when I play tunes during my morning workout - prime tune-time for me - it is much much more likely that I will play a PT CD than a DT CD (I own all of PTs and most of DTs CDs and have them ripped down into MP3s and on my Sandisk Sansa). Coincidentally, wife and I were listening to In Absentia in her van on our way to lunch today. She commented that she wants to go see them if they come anywhere near Minnesota. I said me too but what if the closest they get is Chicago and she said that would be great. So I guess we are keeping an eye out for them the next time they pass withing 500 miles of the Twin Cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members llamastorm Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Robert Randolph's organ player did a really sweet ragtime intermission (in lieu of Drum Solo) last time I saw them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Good. Too often, I find (not in your case or anyones in particular) that certain people literally "penalize" musicians for being "good", or in other fields for being "educated". My girlfriend has been turned down for jobs for being "overqualified". Overqualified??? Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard, if she didnt WANT the job she wouldnt have applied. Turning someone down because they are too good? Mozart is not one of my favorites. If a classical colleague hears me say that, they look at me like I am retarded. That's taste. I am not obligated to like him, however if I didnt see the talent and skill, indeed I would be retarded. Nah...I'm definitely in the same boat as you when it comes to valuing musicianship. I suppose speed and dexterity are traits of a good keyboardist. I do think, however, that creativity and taste are traits of a good musician whose primary instrument is the keyboard. It's just like fashion. A well-executed dress is the result of a good seamstress. However, people can create well-made dresses with hideous prints and adornments. Blending taste with execution makes a great fashion designer. I guess my point is, Jordan Rudess is a great seamstress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Ragtime breaks, lol. I think they fit in during a live set one and only one time in a live show to break tension, add some humor, and entertain the crowd, especially during an encore... as long as the break doesn't interrupt *my* particular favorite song. right!! i remember when I got 'Train of Thought' I thought the DT I originally got into was back, and then he ruined like every song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kennychaffin Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Nah...I'm definitely in the same boat as you when it comes to valuing musicianship. I suppose speed and dexterity are traits of a good keyboardist. I do think, however, that creativity and taste are traits of a good musician whose primary instrument is the keyboard. It's just like fashion. A well-executed dress is the result of a good seamstress. However, people can create well-made dresses with hideous prints and adornments. Blending taste with execution makes a great fashion designer. I guess my point is, Jordan Rudess is a great seamstress? :lol: I suppose it's a bit like the differences in Technician, Engineer, and Scientist... KAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cygnus64 Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I guess my point is, Jordan Rudess is a great seamstress? My guess is that he is a decent classical pianist who does something else for a living. However, I doubt he could play the Prokofiev 3rd Piano Concerto, I dont really know. Usually, when guys like him get to a certain level, they STAY classical. There are very few Emersons and Wakemans who make the switch from classical to "fusion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 There's no doubt that every member of Dream Theater is amazingly talented, but Porcupine Tree is 10 times the band that Dream Theater is. I am close to that conclusion, as well PT's song writing is easily 10x better. Steven Wilson is near genius. DT's songs center around their ' epic ' chop showoff jams while fitting in a verse or 2. again , its math rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 My guess is that he is a decent classical pianist who does something else for a living. However, I doubt he could play the Prokofiev 3rd Piano Concerto, I dont really know. Usually, when guys like him get to a certain level, they STAY classical. There are very few Emersons and Wakemans who make the switch from classical to "fusion". I ran the risk of that...at an early age. I had years of classical training, but when it came to playing rock music I always over-played and arpeggiated everything. One of the biggest shocks to me was that in a band, I don't need to play bass octaves all the time !!!! Now my style when I play with other musicians is very laid back. I hardly ever solo. I like playing piano licks in the back of the tracks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't think that Rudess has had much of a creative input on the song structure of later DT songs. AFAIK, most of the song writing, especially after Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, was done by Portnoy and Petrucci. After Moore left, I really always thought of DT as a guitar and drum based band with a decent vocalist and shredder KB and bass players backing them up. Maybe that is where you guys are coming from as KB players? Yup, Exactly. Probably why I haven't bought a DT album in years. Just the same {censored} over and over with attempts to blend in some mainstream elements everynow and then. What they don't get is LOTS of other bands do the "Mainstream" or "Trendy" thing WAYYYYY Better, and just shouldn't bother. All their stuff post the Falling into infinity album (Which I originally didn't appreciate) just sounds contrived and formulated to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I can't get into the style of music. Nothing against the players who are talented. The only group I kinda dug (if this is even 'prog') would be John Novello and Niacin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I can't get into the style of music. Nothing against the players who are talented. The only group I kinda dug (if this is even 'prog') would be John Novello and Niacin. go over to iTunes and give Porcupine Tree a spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KingVidiot Posted March 7, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Well at least this thread shows that people in this list are passionate about their opinions. I didn't mean that he was the best ever. I said he and Wakeman are the best that I have seen up to now, purely an opinion. I'm definitely going to check out the other names mentioned here. I don't think it was ridiculous to compare him to Glenn Gould. Jordan is obviously classically trained, and some of these videos show that. His skills are excellent and I'm sure he could do justice to Bach's Goldberg Variations. Many music experts don't like Glenn Gould for his sheer speed (many say too fast and too perfect), occasional flamboyance, and excessive humming and squeaky chairs in his performance. However, in essence aren't the speed, perfection, and flamboyance the main elements of what guys like Wakeman and Rudess do all of the time? As far as Dream Theater, I couldn't give a crap about their music. I was just commenting on him. Regarding the "masturbation" references, isn't the usual self-indulgence that most musicians exhibit from time to time really the same thing? I thought that showing-off was an integral part of a stage show. That's where drum and guitar solo's came from, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theextremist04 Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I personally love DT. Some of their stuff more than others. But I like LTE 2 a whole lot more than DT. Songs like when the water breaks are amazing, but then again, I'm a guitar player too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't know any Dream Theater. Never listened to them. This thread isn't making me want to, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't know any Dream Theater. Never listened to them. This thread isn't making me want to, either. thats a shame I don't think DT would listen to you, either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 thats a shame I don't think DT would listen to you, either Hell, sometimes even I don't want to listen to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 Hell, sometimes even I don't want to listen to me! thats not so bad Where I live, when I play, everyone moves away for me. I take credit for a lot of real estate sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomkeen Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I'm a huge fan of both Jordan Rudess and Dream Theater. I've seen them live once, and I loved the show. I think Jordan really has talent, his solo-albums always seemed a lot more creative to me than the stuff he does in DT. I understand why people don't like the newer DT, but as said earlier, it shouldn't be blamed on JR. Mike Portnoy and John Petrucci are the co-producers of every DT-album since Scenes from a Memory. They determine how it's going to sound, JR just does his shredding keyboard parts and that's it basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kennychaffin Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 So what's his best solo album? clips? samples? links? KAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 I'm a huge fan of both Jordan Rudess and Dream Theater. I've seen them live once, and I loved the show. I think Jordan really has talent, his solo-albums always seemed a lot more creative to me than the stuff he does in DT. I understand why people don't like the newer DT, but as said earlier, it shouldn't be blamed on JR. Mike Portnoy and John Petrucci are the co-producers of every DT-album since Scenes from a Memory. They determine how it's going to sound, JR just does his shredding keyboard parts and that's it basically. I agree, I much prefer JR's solo work I realize Portnoy is considered a prototype rock drummer but I think he needs spend a year with Bill Bruford and learn how to lighten up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted March 7, 2008 Members Share Posted March 7, 2008 So what's his best solo album? clips? samples? links? KAC yahoo google youtube ? itunes ? get offyerass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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