Need specific advice on pedal order

[Tone Meister]

I'm adding in a few effects on my small board, some that I haven't used in many years (fuzz for one) and a couple I have never used. I am not confident on where they should be placed and am eliciting advice here on HC . I fully realize that my tastes and ears will determine the final order, but I've seen a bit of conflicting information I'd like to sort out.

 

One of the first things I'd like to sort out is where to place the fuzz? I've seen a number of comments from some reliable people who recommend placing it first in the chain. However, I have a Cornish LD-1 buffer/line driver that I have always placed first in the chain so that the guitar "sees" the correct impedance. After many years of gigging and trying other arrangements, my pedal boards sound best with the LD-1 first in the chain. So, what would you suggest here?

 

Here are the pedals (in no particular order) that will live on this board. Help me with a good starting order with solid info as to why certain configurations are preferred or why others may be less desirable or problematic.

 

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Phase 90

Choralflange

Malekko Vibrato

Empress Trem

Malekko e600B

 

Thanks in advance guys. Have at it.

 

-Stan

[Alt-me]

Guitar >

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Phase 90

Choralflange

Malekko Vibrato

Empress Trem

Malekko e600B

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

 

I think is the right answer...

[kpd78]

I'm adding in a few effects on my small board, some that I haven't used in many years (fuzz for one) and a couple I have never used. I am not confident on where they should be placed and am eliciting advice here on HC . I fully realize that my tastes and ears will determine the final order, but I've seen a bit of conflicting information I'd like to sort out. One of the first things I'd like to sort out is where to place the fuzz? I've seen a number of comments from some reliable people who recommend placing it first in the chain. However, I have a Cornish LD-1 buffer/line driver that I have always placed first in the chain so that the guitar "sees" the correct impedance. After many years of gigging and trying other arrangements, my pedal boards sound best with the LD-1 first in the chain. So, what would you suggest here? Here are the pedals (in no particular order) that will live on this board. Help me with a good starting order with solid info as to why certain configurations are preferred or why others may be less desirable or problematic. Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory) Keeley TS-9 - OD H&K Tube Factor - OD Phase 90 Choralflange Malekko Vibrato Empress Trem Malekko e600B Thanks in advance guys. Have at it. -Stan

 

[Guitar]>

 

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Phase 90

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Choralflange

Malekko Vibrato

Malekko e600B

Empress Trem

 

 

Some fuzzes are happy anywhere, but others (like the Fuzz Factory) are usually best connected first in line to your guitar. Fwiw, the Octafuzz may be OK later in the chain (e.g. after the wah).

 

I always prefer phasers before overdrive/distortion; I always think it sounds thicker this way - running a phaser after OD/dist usually results in a more extreme effect (more swoosh) but with a thinner overal tone.

 

It kind of depends upon how you use the delay (and of course, whether or not you use tremolo and delay together), but I generally put tremolo last in my chains...

it sounds neater that way... tremolo -> delay can easily end up sounding messy unless you have them perfectly tempo-matched... although I do like tremolo -> slapback echo.

 

Hope that helps.

[turnitto11]

Me thinks:

 

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Phase 90

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Choralflange

Malekko Vibrato

Empress Trem

Malekko e600B

[crowquill]

a buffer can go anywhere in the chain and be effective - it doesn't need to be first. In fact, having a buffer before some effects can really change the way they sound for the worse. Most fuzz pedals sound best before buffers

[King Rat]

i'd have the trem after the delay, u want trem last trust

[imbuedblue]

Try to think about how you are going to use the pedals in conjunction with one another when you are designing your rig. Just remember that in use each pedal effects the sound of what comes before it.

 

Placing the LD-1 at the beginning of your pedal chain allows it to effectively drive the signal through the pedals and cable to the amp when the pedals are off. When a pedal is turned on after the LD-1, it drives the signal up to that pedal, while the pedal itself drives the signal to the amp.

 

As others have said, some fuzz pedals were designed around a low input impedance. They only use a portion of the guitar signal to achieve their effect. If you place a buffer before one of these low input impedance devices, more of your guitar signal than is expected is sent into the effect which can drastically change the way it sounds.

 

Will you be stacking your fuzz and overdrive pedals? If so, you'll want to think about or listen to the way the voicings effect one another. Do you use your TS-9 as a boost or for not-so-dirty-dirt? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.

 

Anyway, here is the order I would use. I like my phasers after my tremolo because I sometimes run the both together in that configuration.

 

Guitar

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Malekko Vibrato

Empress Trem

Phase 90

Choralflange

Malekko e600B

Amp

[macadood]

 

Guitar Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory) Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer Keeley TS-9 - OD H&K Tube Factor - OD Malekko Vibrato Empress Trem Phase 90 Choralflange Malekko e600B Amp

 

 

i'd do something liek that as well

[kpd78]

... I like my phasers after my tremolo because I sometimes run the both together in that configuration...

 

Would it make any difference the other way around?

 

Surely it's not going to sound much/any different.

[claytonjohn18]

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer

Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer

Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory)

Keeley TS-9 - OD

H&K Tube Factor - OD

Phase 90

Choralflange

Malekko Vibrato

Empress Trem

Malekko e600B

 

The order you have them listed in will sound fine. Depends on what you're going to have on simultaneously. Fuzz Factories tend to be picky about placement, but a lot of people don't start their chain off with a quality buffer/line driver, so you might find it works great in different places.

 

What you have already suggested is a great starting point, it just depends on what you want...like you said.

[imbuedblue]

Would it make any difference the other way around? Surely it's not going to sound much/any different.

 

Yes, it does sound different. Think about it. A tremolo pedal provides a cyclical modulation in amplitude or volume, while a phaser provides a cyclical peak/notch filter sweep across a frequency.

 

So, imagine playing a guitar while doing rhythmic volume swells with the guitar's volume control. Add a phaser to that and that is the effect you get with the phaser after the tremolo. Now, imagine playing a guitar into a phaser while doing rhythmic volume swells with the amp's volume control. That is the effect you get with the tremolo after the phaser. In other words, with the phaser after the tremolo, you hear the phaser sweep effecting the change in amplitude, but with the tremolo after the phaser you only hear the parts of the phaser sweep that the tremolo allows.

[kpd78]

Yes, it does sound different. Think about it. A tremolo pedal provides a cyclical modulation in amplitude or volume, while a phaser provides a cyclical peak/notch filter sweep across a frequency. So, imagine playing a guitar while doing rhythmic volume swells with the guitar's volume control. Add a phaser to that and that is the effect you get with the phaser after the tremolo. Now, imagine playing a guitar into a phaser while doing rhythmic volume swells with the amp's volume control. That is the effect you get with the tremolo after the phaser. In other words, with the phaser after the tremolo, you hear the phaser sweep effecting the change in amplitude, but with the tremolo after the phaser you only hear the parts of the phaser sweep that the tremolo allows.

 

 

but as the tremolo is just making the volume go up and down and not changing the tone/sound in any other way, I still don't see how it will make that much difference...

 

unless...

 

you mean having the phaser last, you'll still hear the constant sweep of the phaser's self-noise...

[Tone Meister]

Me thinks: Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory) Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer Phase 90 Keeley TS-9 - OD H&K Tube Factor - OD Choralflange Malekko Vibrato Empress Trem Malekko e600B

 

This is the order I initially had in mind, possibly switching the Fuzz and LD-1. Since my original post, I have decided to use the Octafuzz for its simplicity and save the Fuzz Factory for another day. Some great thought-provoking replies thus far for which I am grateful. Really all I'm trying to do here is get the buffer(s) and Fuzz playing nice together then find a home for the vibrato pedal.

 

Thanks for all the replies and especially for providing reasons for your suggested effects chain. The reasons are what inspires ideas that I may not have had otherwise.

[TomCTC]

 

Cornish LD-1 - line driver/buffer Budda wah - with Foxrox buffer Fuzz (Octafuzz or Fuzz Factory) Keeley TS-9 - OD H&K Tube Factor - OD Phase 90 Choralflange Malekko Vibrato Empress Trem Malekko e600B The order you have them listed in will sound fine. Depends on what you're going to have on simultaneously. Fuzz Factories tend to be picky about placement, but a lot of people don't start their chain off with a quality buffer/line driver, so you might find it works great in different places. What you have already suggested is a great starting point, it just depends on what you want...like you said.

 

 

I like this. Try it out!

[Tone Meister]

Was able to spend just a little time with the board and this is the setup I will gig with tonight:

 

LD-1

Keeley comp

Octafuzz

Phase 90

TS-9

Chorus

Vibrato

Trem

Delay

 

Just can't give up the great cleans with tonight's gig, which is as a fill in with a 60's retro group. I definitely am gonna try the Fuzz and wah out front of the buffer next time out though. The thing is, the Budda wah has the Foxrox buffer installed, which is supposedly designed to go before the fuzz in the signal chain, which is part of the conflicting information I eluded to before. Everything sounds great, but the fuzz does sound better with the guitar plugged into its input. Still, there are tradeoffs ...

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

[lolque?]

 

I agree with this. Trem at the end is what I like

[The_Pin]

This stuff makes your head spin.....

 

In my mind, the use of a line driver / buffer is to drive the signal when everything else is off. Plus, it converts high impedance guitar signal to a low impedance signal in order to make long cable runs more hospitable to the signal.

 

I have the Fuzz Factory and have never placed it first in the chain. I think I'm gonna try it with the Line Driver after it. The FF is true bypass so the signal to the buffer shouldn't be affected when the FF is off. When the FF is on, the buffer still sends the low impedance signal through the rest of the chain. Damn Germanium....why's it gotta sound so good??

 

I took Bob Bradshaw's advice, being that the wah is a filter.... I put it towards the end of the chain, before modulation and delays. This way it filters an already nice sound and doesn't affect the input processing of your drive pedals.

 

Remember all Boss, Visual Sound, and Cornish pedals also have a buffer that converts high to low impedance....they just have to be first in the chain to do it properly.

 

Check this out if you haven't seen it:

[video=youtube;TOdDr5BjXV8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdDr5BjXV8

 

There's also a part two to this interview which goes more in depth about buffers.

[mhuxtable]

Love how none of y'all have given him Cornish {censored} yet....I know someone is dying to bust his balls.

[christianatl]

I'm trying to watch that video, but that backing track is super distracting.

 

Learn to volume.

[The_Pin]

 

I'm trying to watch that video, but that backing track is super distracting. Learn to volume.

 

 

Yea whoever put it together is a real dip{censored}.....here's the other one:

[video=youtube;WJKQ6uC2dnM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJKQ6uC2dnM

 

There's no argument that this guy knows his {censored}.....despite that these vids are basically commercials....but there is some useful info.

[christianatl]

Also, that corporate stooge from Dunlop is a tool.

[christianatl]

But yeah, Bradshaw rules.