Members Lou Speed Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 And he makes it very clear on his website that they are "handmade in the US of A" AND he and his engineering team have undertaken extensive R&D. Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aman74 Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 ^idk, to me it is generally acceptable when a fairly small builder clones something mass produced, provided no legal issues arise over such act. cant patent circuits. the opposite though is kinda vomit-inducing: when a large company rips off the smaller builder, particularly when the latter's is already fairly priced, it's a different matter. ESPECIALLY when it's a boutique builder getting ripped off by another booteaker. it's just sad. but this issue we have right now is simply epic. like, seriously? if proven that the FB guy did use those $30 boho pedals (assuming there's no other complicated conspiracies whatsoever) and repainted the {censored}, then it simply trumps the rehoused dd-2 lulz we've had in the past So, it's ok to steal things as long as the company is big? That's what you just said... So at what point does it become ok? Do you have to be Fulltone big or Boss big for your morals to suddenly change? Lots of huge corporations started small...I guess at some point people begin to hate that you were successful at what you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Weezy109 Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think people forget that some, including myself, will pay more to support workers and builders in the good ol USA! I care little about the cloned circuit in a genuinely handbuilt USA pedal and i think people should be rewarded for "actual" efforts. I do not want to pay for some two bit con artist just painting a chinese made pedal and changing a few parts no matter how good it sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musikerochan Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 So, it's ok to steal things as long as the company is big? That's what you just said...So at what point does it become ok? Do you have to be Fulltone big or Boss big for your morals to suddenly change?Lots of huge corporations started small...I guess at some point people begin to hate that you were successful at what you started. you cant steal what is open and public. circuit-wise, that is. when you pump out pedals at a rate impossible to be matched by a 4-man team at max (hand-made, hand-assembled, manual processing), then that to me is small. more importantly, respect for the work of another small builder is always a priority. ripping a comrade off is simply douchebaggery. sure, companies start small. but it's no excuse to rip " friends" off, and not give credit where it is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wulver Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 The simplest answer is usually the correct one. I have no doubt it's #1. And only one person would have to be ignorant - The FB guy had no clue that the exposure (to him, "if" it happened) would be so obvious and so damning. Put it this way: If that *one guy* in the homebrew forum hadn't made the connection between the two pedals we would not be talking about it at all right now. To you and I, that was going to happen eventually. The FB guy probably thought it would never happen.I would be stunned if FB were still selling pedals in meaningful quantity same time next year. If they do, I predict, they will have renamed the company.BTW, as far as the BBE connection goes, I think G&L is also selling a rebranded BBE boost pedal. Especially after this, I don't think it's worth risking the G&L brand. Just to clear up this point, BBE actually OWNS G&L. There's no real conflict of interest there. As to the situation as a whole, well, lulz of many kinds have been had. And I want to try the Joyo compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aman74 Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 you cant steal what is open and public. circuit-wise, that is.when you pump out pedals at a rate impossible to be matched by a 4-man team at max (hand-made, hand-assembled, manual processing), then that to me is small. more importantly, respect for the work of another small builder is always a priority. ripping a comrade off is simply douchebaggery.sure, companies start small. but it's no excuse to rip " friends" off, and not give credit where it is due. Not sure what to say here. You're both misunderstanding me and contradicting what you said previously. You can't steal a circuit, as you said...so please explain how anyone could ever be ripped off then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musikerochan Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 Not sure what to say here. You're both misunderstanding me and contradicting what you said previously. You can't steal a circuit, as you said...so please explain how anyone could ever be ripped off then? hmmm, gray area actually. since circuits cant be patented, it's fine to use them, and in essence no stealing happens, right? however, in the case of builder Y that comes up a well-received design that was copied ("inspired", whatever) by builder G and made into another pedal, no laws may be violated, yes, but you know that this aint fair when builder G denies his was taken directly from builder Y's design when it in fact is a blatant copy design-wise. you know it's a straight up copy, i know it's a copy, they know it's a copy, but builder G wouldnt admit it is. at the end of the day, my support goes to builder Y for being a cool guy that designs a cool-sounding item that's priced fairly. small builder copying big company's products: fine by me. provided no existing laws are violated. wouldnt hurt the latter's sales that much. fo sho. or maybe big company ripping off small builder: a no-no, at least to me. another builder ripping off small builder AND lying about it: idk, maybe it's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scolfax Posted June 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 Just to clear up this point, BBE actually OWNS G&L. There's no real conflict of interest there. Ahh, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CS Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 There's a big difference between using a circuit as a starting point and hand making a board etc (TS808) and using another companies product and marketting it as their own. DOes freekish Blues use the original pedal casing and repaint it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aman74 Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 hmmm, gray area actually. since circuits cant be patented, it's fine to use them, and in essence no stealing happens, right? however, in the case of builder Y that comes up a well-received design that was copied ("inspired", whatever) by builder G and made into another pedal, no laws may be violated, yes, but you know that this aint fair when builder G denies his was taken directly from builder Y's design when it in fact is a blatant copy design-wise. you know it's a straight up copy, i know it's a copy, they know it's a copy, but builder G wouldnt admit it is. at the end of the day, my support goes to builder Y for being a cool guy that designs a cool-sounding item that's priced fairly. I would say there's some grey area as well, but I was just going by what you said. small builder copying big company's products: fine by me. provided no existing laws are violated. wouldnt hurt the latter's sales that much. fo sho. or maybe big company ripping off small builder: a no-no, at least to me. another builder ripping off small builder AND lying about it: idk, maybe it's just me. Back to square one. Like I said, you think it's fine to steal as long as it's some big corporation. Is it ok with you to go into Walmart and shoplift, but not ok to do it at the local mom and pop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave_Mc_2 Posted June 23, 2011 Members Share Posted June 23, 2011 There's a big difference between using a circuit as a starting point and hand making a board etc (TS808) and using another companies product and marketting it as their own. +1. Even if it's a straight clone, if it's handmade in the US (or any western country with higher wages), using decent quality parts and know-how, you could argue that there's no harm done, because if you're willing to pay for that, that's fair enough (whether it's objectively worth it or not). How many people would willingly pay top dollar for what (allegedly) fb has done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scolfax Posted June 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 +1. Personally I have no problem with clones (as long as they're up-front and not doing anything illegal), but it does sorta mystify me when a lot of people seem to act like boutique cloners are awesome, but cheapo cloners are evil. I was having this argument with my wife. I was trying to decide what to do if my $170 Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay sounded the same as a $30 Joyo Delay? She used the argument that I generally agree with that we are complicit in destroying our local economy here in the US if we don't support local businesses. Her best line was "We vote with our dollars". So I had to ask her, do you want us to vote to decrease the level of poverty in China (Joyo) or the Netherlands (Mad Professor)? Edit, guess MP is in Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wein Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET THAT FIXED SOON, LEST I THINK YOU'RE SHOUTING AT ME. I BANNED SOMEONE LAST NIGHT FOR TELLING ME TO "SHUT MY BALD HEAD," SO IMAGINE WHAT I MIGHT DO TO SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS YELLING AT MY BALD HEAD. ok...this made me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members juri Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 I was having this argument with my wife. I was trying to decide what to do if my $170 Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay sounded the same as a $30 Joyo Delay? She used the argument that I generally agree with that we are complicit in destroying our local economy here in the US if we don't support local businesses. Her best line was "We vote with our dollars".So I had to ask her, do you want us to vote to decrease the level of poverty in China (Joyo) or the Netherlands (Mad Professor)? Mad Professor = FinlandBjfe = Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darrell_Curtis Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Funny how everybody is up in arms about the whole FB rebranding thing but could care less that the Joyo is an OCD ripoff. Well, considering that Mike Fuller lifted the OCD from the DOD 250 preamp, think it's yet another greay area. and the Fatboost is lifted from Orman FET boost. Yeah, he made some changes, but Joyo did to their Ultimate Drive. And at one point Joyo had it in the UD desciption that is was an OCD clone. That's more than Mike Fuller has done. And another thing - the Joyo (and by extension the Alpha Drive) sounds nothing like a Zendrive. Even audio clips, as bad as they can be will confirm that unless you just have impaired hearing. And oddly enough a ZD doesn't really sound like a Dumble (and yes, I've heard several Dumbles in person) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cassette Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 DOes freekish Blues use the original pedal casing and repaint it?yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave_Mc_2 Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 ^ i wonder if they leave the old paintjob on there, or do they take it off? if someone was any good they could maybe look into that. if the old paintjob is underneath (like those old refinished fenders, where the old finish is still visible under any nicks or worn bits)... of course, if fb has done this. it's still "allegedly" in my book (just to keep the lawyers happy, if nothing else). While the whole thing looks very fishy, i'm not much in favour of witch-hunts. Which is not to say I'm running out to buy an alpha drive either. LOL. I was having this argument with my wife. I was trying to decide what to do if my $170 Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay sounded the same as a $30 Joyo Delay? She used the argument that I generally agree with that we are complicit in destroying our local economy here in the US if we don't support local businesses. Her best line was "We vote with our dollars".So I had to ask her, do you want us to vote to decrease the level of poverty in China (Joyo) or the Netherlands (Mad Professor)?Edit, guess MP is in Finland yeah, i mean that's pretty much the way I'd look at it too. I don't want anyone to lose his/her job, but if you want to get pedantic, I'd feel less bad about someone in a western country with welfare/dole etc. losing his/her job than someone in a third world country where there aren't the same safety nets. EDIT: just to clarify, I'm not saying losing your job anywhere is easy. I'm just saying that in the west, you hopefully won't starve if you do. I guess the way I'd put it is, in principle it's the same, but in practice it can be different. For example, stealing is wrong (in principle), but in practice it's a whole different thing if someone starving steals a loaf of bread from someone rich than if that rich person steals a loaf of bread from someone who'll starve as a result. That's the way I look at it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daddyO Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 What a bummer. Thadeus Hogarth is the man. One time while living in Mission Hill, I was running late to school and while walking down the hill to catch the Green Line, Thaddeus Hogarth pulled up and gave me a ride, pretty much because i had a guitar on my back. Solid dude I suspect that Thaddeus didn't know where or how the Alpha was made. He's just an overworked, underpaid muso trying to make ends meet. When I bought my Alpha Drive, Ken popped a Thaddeus DVD in the box. Thaddeus is one funky mofo, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 I suspect that Thaddeus didn't know where or how the Alpha was made. He's just an overworked, underpaid muso trying to make ends meet. When I bought my Alpha Drive, Ken popped a Thaddeus DVD in the box. Thaddeus is one funky mofo, folks. From the video: "I've been working with the folks at Freekish Blues for some time now, trying to create what we believe is the ultimate overdrive pedal." Hmm "ultimate overdrive?" as in "Joyo Ultimate Drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scolfax Posted June 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hmm "ultimate overdrive?" as in "Joyo Ultimate Drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmy Chitown Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 BYOC Which translates to: Bshut Your Oldbald Cranium. Note lack of capslock. HEY! I'm still rockin' a fuzz box I built from Craig Anderton's Electronic Projects for Musicians so stfu noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scolfax Posted June 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 BYOC Joyo pedals are so inexpensive that you just lost your job making pedals for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmy Chitown Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 Joyo pedals are so inexpensive that you just lost your job making pedals for yourself. Yeah I know a guy who will sleep with my wife for cheap, too. But I'm not paying him. I prefer to provide her with teh expensive gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wulver Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 ^^^ Sig-worthy exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nostalgis Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 ^^^ Sig-worthy exchange. I got dibs on that, brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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