Members toddkuen Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 ...it's time that people who are into electronic music throw aside this "circuit-bending" notion and learn to distinguish between people who modify an instrument from an informed perspective to achieve a musical goal ... and people who trash their MicroKorgs by jumpering randomly around an SMT PCB and then come to the HC/KSS forum to beg for help.... I guess I missed out on "circuit bending" as well. Nice rant but, on the other hand, sometimes you've got no choice but to start with what you can get your hands on. I started "bending" old tube TVs in the 70s after my dad took me to see a Moog performance at a local university. I lived in rural WI and the only way to get into electronics then was the library and taking the AMC Hornet out to pick up junk TVs for the basement laboratory. I had no real musical goals other than to create a "Moog" but I learned enough from the schematics glued to the inside of the TVs to get a job in electronics doing audio by the time I graduated HS. I think there's too much "clamping down" on curiosity these days - it may be disoranized madness - but maybe a few will catch the spark and pull themselves up out of the primordial ooze like I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 true that, it's just the other lemmings that are so annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 You seem to have it all worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toddkuen Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 300 VDC is a good teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 me? there's really no right or wrong..and this is kind of getting old, however i feel (about many things) that when something starts to attract people by being perceived as cool, it looses it's value as something unique and individual and become a commodity. people on the other side of the issue tend to feel a sense of validation even if that means moving towards homogeneity and depersonalization. that's just something I don't agree with. each to his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 and to agree with an above poster, I don't see how you can't feel that the larger number of people just going through the motions of something doesn't become irritating for someone who takes it seriously. propagating something through imitation is the antithesis of creativity. We are now living in an era of instant access to information, which is the cause of all of this, so like every form of art that came out in the 19th century, instantaneous information will be the downfall of music as it's interpreted and enjoyed now. I really can't think of a single music group that I've liked within the past ten years that wasn't an interpretation of something else I've heard already. Not that this is a bad thing because I still enjoy music, the weirder the better, but don't expect anything innovative within music in itself till new technology comes along that allows it to be processed with our other senses besides hearing. I predict music in pill form, complete with hallucinations and physical vibrations. This is why I respect circuit bending, even if it is considered passe now. It offers a visual element that is stimulating for me which is different from what traditional musicians emit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 With so many people focusing their "musical" energies on auditioning for American Idol and playing the likes of Guitar Hero and Rock Band on Xbox/Wii/PS3, I don't see any problem with a relatively tiny fraction of the population jumping on the "bent circuit bandwagon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 there's really no right or wrong..and this is kind of getting old, however i feel (about many things) that when something starts to attract people by being perceived as cool, it looses it's value as something unique and individual and become a commodity. people on the other side of the issue tend to feel a sense of validation even if that means moving towards homogeneity and depersonalization. that's just something I don't agree with. each to his own. I appreciate your paragraph above. Kinda takes the edge off that initial "drugs or a mental illness" remark. I'm serious about what I do and I think I succeed in reaching my goals as an artist and a musician. I'll eat my hat the day that circuit bending leads to homogeny and depersonalization. Sure, a bunch of kids can buy ebay "bent" toys to seek validation or impress other simpletons, but that's hardly any different than a bunch of kids buying stratocasters for those same reasons, is it? Has the guitar "scene" passed? To me, 99% of noise music is just that. Lousy "circuit bent" material is plentiful. That other 1% has kept my attention for years now. Greaseenvelope, I apologize for posting your pics and drawing fresh negative comments towards your work. Imo, you are the Keith Emerson of noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greaseenvelope Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Did you see me play when I was in Milwalkee a few months ago? Wondering where this is coming from... That city kicks ass. Was there for 3 days at a fest of grim, drunken black-wearing power electronics dudes, which had its ups and downs. As you said in terms of most current noise/experimental music... 90% thumbs down. They were still fun guys to drink with, even if they were pretty much serving up dull crunch walls and feedback tones. Some interesting ideas here and there. I am such a jaded bitch I'll give most sets at fests about 40 seconds to impress me. Most fail. I have too much respect for my ears to let them be damaged any further by mediocre noise. But man, I really enjoyed my 2 full days before the shows biking all around town in the early autumn. Just a few miles ride to the show at Borg Ward. Sweet little space too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greaseenvelope Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Way too much cash but a solid idea. DIY. Bend Matrix $790 The complete Bend Matrix. Selectable 4x8 Matrix or Dual 2x4. Four analog real-time controls and 16 effects, MIDI in/out. Sixteen 1/4" jacks, sixteen banana jacks (may be substituted for 1/8" or RCA). Sixteen banks of 8 patches each, with sequencer and long-term memory. Suitable for controlling circuit bent instruments, patching modular synths, routing effects/signals/video/etc. MIDI functionality can be custom programmed to your needs (note on/off, CC, pitchwheel). Also... no one knows anything about that obscure Roland Harpsichord I have now? Really? Don't make me bump a sad lonely thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 I posted about the Bend Matrix but Allerian was the only person who responded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 To me, 99% of noise music is just that. Lousy "circuit bent" material is plentiful. That other 1% has kept my attention for years now. I was saying somewhere else as well that 1% is what keeps me alive these days.. and I don't disagree with you at all. But I'm not into purely abstract circuit bending enough to chase down that 1% (as with many, many other things). I do however think it doesn't get enough exposure or usage for resynthesis, sampling ect. That city kicks ass. Was there for 3 days at a fest of grim, drunken black-wearing power electronics dudes, which had its ups and downs. As you said in terms of most current noise/experimental music... 90% thumbs down. you guys have me at a severe disadvantage.. I've never had the opportunity just to hang around guys into what they do for the pure sake of it. Down here it's 210% drunken black-wearing power electronics dudes, or goth princesses or emo / scene chics at the mall going "mom, can i have the 1,500$ mac book pro so i can get onto myspace and post about how much i hate you?!?" then they filter out of highschool and into community college where i work and it's constant *head desk*. and of course, since i'm mired down with it, i see it on the net too and i'm really surprised i haven't developed a facial tick yet or something... see hopefully you all understand and no hard feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keybdwizrd Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Complaining that they are not making real songs is like saying every surreal painter is crap because they are not creating pictures of identifiable objects. Personally, I find it difficult to classify any circuit bent thing I've ever heard as a "song." I also find it difficult to call it "music" although that's not to say it couldn't be "art." Dirt smeared on a piece of wood likely isn't a painting by anyone's definition, but I suppose there's someone out there that might consider it to be art. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 What, you're all still here? I said get the {censored} off my lawn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 see hopefully you all understand and no hard feelings Roger that, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Did you see me play when I was in Milwalkee a few months ago? Wondering where this is coming from... My opinion comes from the videos I've seen of your performances. If you come to Milwaukee again, post a heads-up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 why even retain the moniker of "circuit bending" if what you're doing is from a a background of some degree of intelligent research?i seriously don't get how "instrument modification" became "circuit bending" I was under the impression that the lack of knowledge of the bender and the resulting randomness of the results were crucial to circuit bending? Is that completely wrong? Whereas i see a modification as a very informed and intelligently thought out improvement of an instruments capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Re-Member Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 Personally, I find it difficult to classify any circuit bent thing I've ever heard as a "song." I also find it difficult to call it "music" although that's not to say it couldn't be "art." Simply not liking something doesn't make it less valid as an art form. I could think of hundreds of musical acts which I find downright annoying to listen to, but I wouldn't say it's bad or that is shouldn't be considered music at all. On the other side of the coin, there's always someone who will enjoy and appreciate it. Seriously, I'm amazed how ridiculously elitist people can get about something as basic as music in this era. This is why it's all being reduced to interpretation, with things finally coming full circle with the "noise scene" reducing it back to it's primitive beginnings. And for the record, I've been to many museums with prehistoric exhibits featuring dirt paintings smeared on wood and rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members controlvoltage Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 what burns my toast is the fact that modern children's toys hide all the goods underneath a useless blob of epoxy. All the sound-generation is integrated onto one IC anyway, so there's no way to get at the data bits and manipulate them before they're converted to audio. These days you're lucky if you even get a resistor or timing cap you can f#*& with. That's why most of the bent stuff is from the 80s... back then you had to have separate thru-hole ICs for everything, so it was easy to get in there and go buckwild with some CMOS illogic, data patchbays and similar such shenanigans. Thems were the days. now, it's just a lot of played-out hipster bullcrap, unless you go the extra mile and make cool music with your glitter-painted troll-hair-tufted sonic spew generators. Not enough folks put forth the effort on that last point. Or maybe that's not what they were out to do in the first place. Me, I'm gonna just get my screwdriver and put this thing back together; there's nothing worth bending in there anyhow. Might be worth repurposing into a custom MIDI controller though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 what burns my toast is the fact that modern children's toys hide all the goods underneath a useless blob of epoxy. All the sound-generation is integrated onto one IC anyway, so there's no way to get at the data bits and manipulate them before they're converted to audio. These days you're lucky if you even get a resistor or timing cap you can f#*& with. That's why most of the bent stuff is from the 80s... back then you had to have separate thru-hole ICs for everything, so it was easy to get in there and go buckwild with some CMOS illogic, data patchbays and similar such shenanigans. Thems were the days. now, it's just a lot of played-out hipster bullcrap, unless you go the extra mile and make cool music with your glitter-painted troll-hair-tufted sonic spew generators. Not enough folks put forth the effort on that last point. Or maybe that's not what they were out to do in the first place. Me, I'm gonna just get my screwdriver and put this thing back together; there's nothing worth bending in there anyhow. Might be worth repurposing into a custom MIDI controller though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 You guys and your "hipster" talk. Who are these people? Carbon nailed it again. Simply not liking something doesn't make it less valid as an art form. Most of this thread comes off as simple downtalk from people who don't have the understanding, ability or (the most important part, here it comes) the artistic drive to apply this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 You guys and your "hipster" talk. Who are these people? I think most of people's negative impressions (including my own) come from a period of about 5 years between the end of the 90's industrial scene and the openly widespread commercialization of "indie" around 2004-5. Suddenly it as all cool to be all DIY. Make magazine sprung up and essentially sold free information from the internet to people they dubbed "makers", other websites like instructables.com followed.. (hackaday.com is the original punk DIY webzine BTW). Also Myspace popped up which contributed heavily to crafting it all around an image... Suddenly the internet was besieged by horribly cliche people bent on making everything look like something from super mario brothers. or they were horribly hypocritical by riding around on a bike they pulled out of a dumpster, claiming to save the earth by riding it, only to pedal down to the local starbucks and flip open their macbooks.. It was just the music / art worlds turn for what happened to the import car scene with the all the awful bolt / tape / paint on accessories that started showing up the car part stores. It's tragic, but its the cycle of life. and sure it stings. But on the upside we are left with the image of a grubby white tshirt, black glasses, unibomber beard wearing hiptser to drag around and kick the crotch of in effigy whenever these topics come up ... I jest. I jest.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carbon111 Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 Carbon nailed it again. Que dice? Carbon who? This is my first post in this thread. FWIW, I think bending is great if it's done well...Allerian's "copper box" is a good example. The various Arius Blaze projects are another. If it's not done well, then it's just kind of sad. I also find it sort of heartbreaking that people are starting to bend CZ101s, M1s, and other full-blown synths...though I have no issues with DIY or actual modification. A lot of "bending" just seems to be haphazard short-circuiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Allerian Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 Oops, I was confused by Re-Member's similarly black and white themed avatar. Too much staring at your potential cd covers I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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