Members dgc480 Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 I currently run 8 pedals on my board into a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue amp. I was reading about how the length of instrument cables can invite extra noise, and that generally you don't want to use a cable over ~15 feet. Right now I have an 18 foot cable from guitar to board, patch cables between 6 pedals, and then another 18 foot cable from board to amp. So technically, would this all add up to mean that I have at least 40-50 feet of unbalanced 1/4 in. cable between me and the amp inviting all kinds of noise? In addition, I have two 18 foot cables connecting my delay and chorus to the effects loop. Does the length of cable matter for the effects loop? I was reading something about it being buffered, and that this made it ok to use longer cables? I'm wondering how everyone else does this. At first I thought I wanted longer cables to move around, but truthfully I pretty much stand in the same area on stage. So maybe I should buy all shorter cables? What if you want to place your pedal board further from your amp? Does everyone else just use 6 foot cables and stay tethered in front of their amp? Any advice would be great. Thanks, Dylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 I use a 6 foot cable from guitar to pedal board, then a 10 or 15 ft cable from board to amp (depending on how big the venue is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 honestly, I think you are worrying about nothing... I've used 2x25 footers and noticed no audible difference at all to using 2x10 footers... just use whatever suits the size stage you are playing on... you don't want long cables tangling around your feet at a small pub gig and by the same token you don't want a short cable on a bigger stage meaning you can't walk back to your amp or over to have a word with the bass player or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wacopacco Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 I use a 25ft from my guitar to my board and a 30ft from my board to my amp. I leave them in my pedalboard case all the time instead of switching them out for each venue... No noise issues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 thanks for the comments guys. I understand that many people are using longer cables. This eases my mind a bit, but the question still remains. With a 20 ft cable from guitar - board, and another 20 ft. cable from board - amp, does this mean I'm technically using 40 ft of unbalanced cable? Because I think it's a pretty well known fact that for cable runs this long an unbalanced cable will invite a lot of noise. You may not be hearing it after all of your distortion, effects, noise reducers, etc., but in theory it should be there, correct? I worry b/c I have a pretty noisy set up right now, and I'm wondering if the length of my cables could be contributing to this. Plus I'm kinda OCD about my rig and I just like to have it running as clean as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 bump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jules-RM Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 12 ft guitar to board. Long enough to piss about, short enough to avoid tone suck. After that if you've got a decent buffer it doesn't matter much. I have an 18 ft from board to amp. Don't really notice much difference plugged direct to amp and through he board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 thanks for the comments guys. I understand that many people are using longer cables. This eases my mind a bit, but the question still remains. With a 20 ft cable from guitar - board, and another 20 ft. cable from board - amp, does this mean I'm technically using 40 ft of unbalanced cable? Because I think it's a pretty well known fact that for cable runs this long an unbalanced cable will invite a lot of noise. You may not be hearing it after all of your distortion, effects, noise reducers, etc., but in theory it should be there, correct? I worry b/c I have a pretty noisy set up right now, and I'm wondering if the length of my cables could be contributing to this. Plus I'm kinda OCD about my rig and I just like to have it running as clean as possible. no 'technically' about it, you are using 40ft of unbalanced cable... what noise are you hearing? .. if you have a noisy set up I would look first at the guitars pickups/wiring, then each individual pedal.. a couple of decent quality cables shouldn't really be adding any noticable 'noise' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Because I think it's a pretty well known fact that for cable runs this long an unbalanced cable will invite a lot of noise. You may not be hearing it after all of your distortion, effects, noise reducers, etc., but in theory it should be there, correct? unbalanced cable is still shielded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JesperT Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 This may not be your problem at all, but I found that the noise from my pedalboard was coming from having the power supply too close to certain pedals (like the wah). Moving the power supply away from these pedals fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 it is a known fact that unbalanced cable is "unbalanced" due to the uneven frequency exchange flow....hence the frequencies of your guitar signal get jumbled in the transfer & sound "noisey". a balanced cable with carbonite embedded crystal lattice will indeed silence your unwanted noise, as well as significantly increase your tone to flux ratio, thereby giving you your desired sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 hmm, and I always thought it just meant it was prone to extreme mood swings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Jules, you mentioned that if I have a decent buffer I should be alright. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been doing some research and it appears that a buffer just re-amplifies your signal so that you don't lose signal or quality with long cable runs. Does the buffer also reduce the noise associated with long cable runs? Please elaborate here, especially in terms of the buffered effects loop. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GrooveSkipInc Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think you'll need to invest in a Cornish rig to remove the buffered tone suck. I've gotten around that by not using cables anymore. My tone is amazing. Does your guitar sound good when you're playing it? Are you happy with the tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think you're ignoring the advice here...long cabling in and of itself doesn't cause noise. Dirty power, power supplies too close to certain pedals, and noisy pedals cause noise. Long cabling is just going to reduce your high end a bit, which a buffer helps fix (in simplest of terms). Don't ask a question if you don't wanna hear the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Haha what? You think you can talk down to me like that because you're on some internet forum? I'm not as uneducated about this stuff as you may think. You really need to get off your high horse. It's not that I don't want to hear the answer, it's that I don't AGREE with the answer. I'm not only a guitarist but a sound engineer, and I know that it is a FACT that the longer an unbalanced cable is the more noise it will invite. This is why every sound engineer in the world uses balanced cabling for EVERYTHING from long stage runs to studio connections. I know that unbalanced cables don't ADD noise, but they INVITE noise from, your correct, bad power, noisy pedals, single coils etc. I understand all of this, and I am also considering ways to reduce the noise that is present to be invited into the cable such as power conditioning. However, it should be obvious to you that reducing the cable length so as to reduce the amount of noise invited into the cable is a good idea as well. You can never eliminate all of the noisy components around you, especially when playing in different venues all the time, so you need to do something about how much of this noise enters your rig. That means shortening the unbalanced cable runs. All I'm doing here is proposing a healthy and civil discussion about how everyone deals with the FACT that long cables invite more noise. Using shorter cables seems like the obvious solution, but this limits your mobility on stage, so I was wondering what everyone else does to deal with this. I'm not asking to be told that long unbalanced cables don't invite more noise, because that is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrNixon Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 i have a set of 3 (used to be 4 until one got lost) ~10' Planet Waves instrument cables for smaller stages and home use - i run some fx in my amp's serial FX loop. for larger stages, i have 4 ~20-25' Mogami instrument cables. Almost zero noise from logistics such as cabling and single coil pickups - i have my board wired up with 100% custom cut Lava Cable - and the tone is rather crisp and punchy at all times. The only noise introduced heavily relies on the electric work involved at the venue. I've played some stages that are touted to be for performances, only to find that the 60hz hum/buzz is off the charts, and then I go and play someone's basement/garage only to find that my setup is as quiet as it usually is. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GrooveSkipInc Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just find a tone that you like. No one will be able to tell your 10 foot cable from your 20 foot cable when you're playing live. You don't need to be an audiophile. Also - internet resumes are silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowWoods Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pewtershmit Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 your not going to see less noise eliminating a few feet of cabling. As stated the only thing your really going to notice is the signal loss from running through so much cable. buffered bypass pedal, or a stand alone buffer and you will see that high end come back. but as someone who runs a coily cable and 3 20 foot cables going to the board, including the board's cables. While there is a tonal difference, its not necessarily a bad thing to loss that high end. Smooth as eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andreas Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Any cable can pick up noise along the way, and while a balanced connection has a system for weeding out the noise that has been picked up, unbalanced cables do not. But there are other factors as well - both the signal strength and source (output) impedance play a big part in the amount of noise that can creep into a cable run. In the case of the fx loop cables, both those factors play in (the signal level is usually higher, and the loop send is low impedance), so there's really not too much to worry about. And assuming at least one of the pedals on the board is buffered (or turned on), the pedalboard -> amp cable will also be driven by a low impedance source. I normally use about 16' of cable from guitar to pedalboard, while the pedalboard->amp cable varies with the venue. For most gigs, 10' is enough, but I will go longer if I need to. I've never had any problems (that I've noticed) with noise creeping into the cables themselves. The pickups are a whole other issue, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhuxtable Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Haha what? You think you can talk down to me like that because you're on some internet forum? I'm not as uneducated about this stuff as you may think. You really need to get off your high horse. It's not that I don't want to hear the answer, it's that I don't AGREE with the answer. I'm not only a guitarist but a sound engineer, and I know that it is a FACT that the longer an unbalanced cable is the more noise it will invite. This is why every sound engineer in the world uses balanced cabling for EVERYTHING from long stage runs to studio connections. I know that unbalanced cables don't ADD noise, but they INVITE noise from, your correct, bad power, noisy pedals, single coils etc. I understand all of this, and I am also considering ways to reduce the noise that is present to be invited into the cable such as power conditioning. However, it should be obvious to you that reducing the cable length so as to reduce the amount of noise invited into the cable is a good idea as well. You can never eliminate all of the noisy components around you, especially when playing in different venues all the time, so you need to do something about how much of this noise enters your rig. That means shortening the unbalanced cable runs. All I'm doing here is proposing a healthy and civil discussion about how everyone deals with the FACT that long cables invite more noise. Using shorter cables seems like the obvious solution, but this limits your mobility on stage, so I was wondering what everyone else does to deal with this. I'm not asking to be told that long unbalanced cables don't invite more noise, because that is false. sounds like I'm not the one on a high horse! then why are you still asking? I think you wanna be here instead: TGP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Haha what? You think you can talk down to me like that because you're on some internet forum? I'm not as uneducated about this stuff as you may think. You really need to get off your high horse. It's not that I don't want to hear the answer, it's that I don't AGREE with the answer. I'm not only a guitarist but a sound engineer, and I know that it is a FACT that the longer an unbalanced cable is the more noise it will invite. This is why every sound engineer in the world uses balanced cabling for EVERYTHING from long stage runs to studio connections. I know that unbalanced cables don't ADD noise, but they INVITE noise from, your correct, bad power, noisy pedals, single coils etc. I understand all of this, and I am also considering ways to reduce the noise that is present to be invited into the cable such as power conditioning. However, it should be obvious to you that reducing the cable length so as to reduce the amount of noise invited into the cable is a good idea as well. You can never eliminate all of the noisy components around you, especially when playing in different venues all the time, so you need to do something about how much of this noise enters your rig. That means shortening the unbalanced cable runs. All I'm doing here is proposing a healthy and civil discussion about how everyone deals with the FACT that long cables invite more noise. Using shorter cables seems like the obvious solution, but this limits your mobility on stage, so I was wondering what everyone else does to deal with this. I'm not asking to be told that long unbalanced cables don't invite more noise, because that is false. it might be a FACT in your rig but not everyone's since it sounds like you are having noise problems and can't track down the issue I suggest taking everything apart and starting from scratch again, one pedal and patch cable at a time if a cable seems like it's adding excessive noise, it's probably faulty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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