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Chinese Democracy: What do you think?

Palaver

By Palaver
in Keys, Synths & Samplers

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Obsidious Newbie

Obsidious

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still off topic, but the polar opposite of axl rose, george michael and other wanky entertainers from what I've heard is david bowie. Apparently ziggy loves to chill with the crew, drinkin beers smoking spliffs talking {censored} and just being an all round super nice guy in general. Which is a relief, 'cause those diva stories always kill the music for me (if it's good to begin with).

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Cygnus64 Newbie

Cygnus64

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still off topic, but the polar opposite of axl rose, george michael and other wanky entertainers from what I've heard is david bowie. Apparently ziggy loves to chill with the crew, drinkin beers smoking spliffs talking {censored} and just being an all round super nice guy in general. Which is a relief, 'cause those diva stories always kill the music for me (if it's good to begin with).



We all want to look up to our heroes. David Bowie is certainly one of mine, I'm glad to hear he's a good guy.:thu:

With guys like Axl Rose, I'm not particularly a fan to begin with, so the stories just accentuate my negativity towards him. If I heard he was nice I might like him better.

There was one violinist that I worshipped as a kid. I finally got to work with him as an adult and even rode in a Limo with him. Total jackass.:cry: I think at that point I learned how to separate my respect for musicianship and the person.

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Palaver Newbie

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So what about the album, guys?

:lol:

It's not a debate about whether Axel is a dick or not... it's whether or not it was a good effort... However, the thread did turn to an interesting topic: how a personality can destroy or ruin the reputation of their work.

I like to seperate the two - whether it be music or business. At work, when I need to goto contractors, I employ those who do the best job period. Usually, those people tend to have great personalities... some, I'd rather not hang out with, but they do a wonderful job and take pride in their work.

I view Axel in that same light... (even though this is an opinion based thread), I love some of the classic G'n'R material, and I also think Axel's newest effort is fantastic. I know he's a diva, but he has done some incredible things - whether you like him or not, he's changed the face of music with some anthems. Maybe you like the tunes, or maybe you don't.

Look at Michael Jackson. Who knows what the hell that man did with those kids? I still like Thriller, and a bunch of his tunes. Try finding a Hallowe'en party without Thriller!

It's like those guys who think gorgeous chicks are ugly after they meet them. They are mixing up personality with the way they look... which is fine... There are lots of gorgeous girls that I want no part of... but I can still appreciate the fact that they are beautiful.

I think that's what you have to do with a lot of our rock icons. Take the music for what it is... not specifically base your opinion on an album because of the jackass that wrote it.

So here is my next question:

Does it make a difference to you on whether or not a song is written by a complete asshole or not?

To me, it doesn't at all. If a product/album/service in my opinion is great, then I like it, regardless of the person providing it. However, it's a lot easier to appreciate it if the provider is a great individual. It's also that much easier to bash it, if you dislike the person.

Here's an interesting spin on the whole topic. I like Gene Simmons and I enjoy listening to his comments and opinions. However, I can't stand KISS. They drive me up the wall.

I just figured I'd write out my observations on the thread, and I find the responses interesting to these questions... I figured that I'd provide more food for thought! Thanks for the discussion guys.

Cheers,
Phil B

:):):)

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Palaver Newbie

Palaver

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We all want to look up to our heroes. David Bowie is certainly one of mine, I'm glad to hear he's a good guy.
:thu:

With guys like Axl Rose, I'm not particularly a fan to begin with, so the stories just accentuate my negativity towards him. If I heard he was nice I might like him better.


There was one violinist that I worshipped as a kid. I finally got to work with him as an adult and even rode in a Limo with him. Total jackass.
:cry:
I think at that point I learned how to separate my respect for musicianship and the person.



It's funny that you wrote this while I was typing up my newest response!

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Obsidious Newbie

Obsidious

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There was one violinist that I worshipped as a kid. I finally got to work with him as an adult and even rode in a Limo with him. Total jackass.
:cry:



Wasn't Nigel Kennedy was it? I'd hate to think that a guy whose entire image was built upon being cool and antiestablishment was actually a knobend (probably not who you're talking about, but he's the only violinist a layman can namecheck).

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Obsidious Newbie

Obsidious

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I love some of the classic G'n'R material, and I also think Axel's newest effort is fantastic. I know he's a diva, but he has done some incredible things - whether you like him or not, he's changed the face of music with some anthems.

 

 

Hey I dug appetite for destruction way back when, can still handle listening to Axel when paradise city or welcome to the jungle comes on the radio, but that's a pretty big call to say he "changed the face of music" by going iiiiiieeeeeeiiiiiiieeeeeiiiiiii alot...

 

I would hazard a guess that their past success had alot more to do with the musicianship of the other band members rather than Axel's lyrics and vocal stylings, and as for this new one, well with the amount of money he's thrown at it in the last ten years who knows just how much of it he is responsible for himself. Then again perhaps the gunners wouldn't have made any mark at all without that instantly recognisable singing style of his, maybe he really is some misunderstood *cough* "genius". Unfortunately for me, yeah, the fact that he is supposedly a whiny prick colors my view of his work. Maybe if he'd showed up and fought Vince Neil all those years ago...

 

And sorry but Michael Jackson and Axel Rose are in two completely different ballparks talentwise. I'll look the other way while jacko moves into a house opposite a primary school (as icky as that is) because I blame it on the boogie.

 

I probably should just STFU since I haven't even heard chinese democracy yet, always thought the point of the title was that we would never see it in our lifetimes...he deserves credit for finally releasing it I guess.

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Cygnus64 Newbie

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Wasn't Nigel Kennedy was it? I'd hate to think that a guy whose entire image was built upon being cool and antiestablishment was actually a knobend (probably not who you're talking about, but he's the only violinist a layman can namecheck).

 

 

Nigel Kennedy is a TOTAL dickwad. No, it wasnt him as he's about my age, it was a guy named Pinky (Pinchas) Zukerman.

I don't think much of Nigel's playing. He's certainly very talented but it's just not my thing.

 

 

Does it make a difference to you on whether or not a song is written by a complete asshole or not?

 

 

Usually not. A lot of the great composers were tools.

 

To me, Axl exudes his assholeness in his music. So does Elton John. I think that the Elton John of the 70s is almost a different guy than the one today, and his music shows it. I think he grew into being the diva that he is, he learned it over the years. I hear it in his voice.

 

As for the new GnR album,

 

I heard two cuts and it's about what I expected. If you're a fun of GnR you'll probably like it, and if you're not that's not about to change.

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Awake77 Newbie

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Does it make a difference to you on whether or not a song is written by a complete asshole or not?

 

 

Sometimes - if the music is really killer I can look past that it was written by an asshole.

 

I think there's too many jerkoffs and asswipes in the world, so if a hero of mine turns out to be a prick I generally kick him/her out of hero status.

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The Real MC Newbie

The Real MC

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Axl always was crap. Slash, Duff & Izzy brought heavy blues-oriented rock back into the mainstream. They didn't change the face of music, but they did some pretty cool things with existing formulae.


Did I mention that Axl always was crap?

 

 

No disagreement here. I never cared for King Axl and his chalkboard screeching.

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Gunslinger69 Newbie

Gunslinger69

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So here is my next question:


Does it make a difference to you on whether or not a song is written by a complete asshole or not?


 

 

If it's someone who is simply reputed to be an asshole, not really. If it's someone who has been an asshole to me, then there it affects my analysis but doesn't really decrease my appreciation of the work, e.g. "Wow, that asshole can really play."

 

Like it or not, the background on someone does influence how I perceive their body of work. For instance, I like a lot of William Gibson's novels. It made me uncomfortable to find out that he was a draft dodger. It didn't lead me to stop reading him, but it does make me uncomfortable.

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Palaver Newbie

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I wonder who was the first person to tell Axl Rose he could sing ... ???



Wow, I'm really out there on this post! I guess posting a guitar oriented album on a keyboard forum is a big mistake! I'm a keys player, and a drummer, so at least I have one mega-dominant instrument in the noise department. You can really piss off a guitarist on that pretty well.

I read an interview that describes Chinese Democracy as being full of "Axel's trademarked rusted siren screaming." I love that description, as it suits him perfectly.

I like his voice. I don't know why, but I just do. Perhaps I just like annoying things, like blips, beeps, gongs and bongs... and well, Chinese Democracy.

:):):)

Cheers,
Phil B

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